Saturday, May 5, 2012

Chanakya and his views about women


Chanakya was famous Indian philosopher who was responsible for the overthrow of the last ruler of Nanda dynasty and start of Maurya dynasty. He played very important part in the establishment, growth and preservation of Maurya Empire. He was teacher and mentor to the first Maurya emperor Chandragupta. He was man of great tactics who made great contributions and was instrumental in changing the course of Indian history. It is said that Chanakya had been personally offended by King Nanda and he had vowed to keep his long sikha (pony tail) unknotted until he saw to the demise of the contemptuous ruler and his drunken princes. Chanakya helped Chandragupta in raising large army and defeating King Nanda there by fulfilling his vow. He roughly lived between the periods 350-275 BC. He was also known as Kautilya and Vishnu Gupta. Chanakya functioned as Chandragupta's counselor and advised him in many matters related with state. A treatise on the science of politics "Arthashastra' is the most famous work of Chanakya. He is considered as pioneer of the field of economics and political science. He is considered as one of the great teacher, thinker and diplomat. His intellectual genius commanded lot of adulation and respect during his time and subsequent years. Later on people even tried to attribute authorship of several works dealing with various subjects ranging from sex (Kamasutra), to astronomy and mathematics to him but only 'Arthashastra' and "Neetishastra' or 'Chanakya Neeti' are the two books attributed to him.

He is considered as great economist and revolutionary. He was a great strategist of his time, and also considered as ruthless manipulator who was determined to achieve his goals by using fourfold policy of Conciliation, Donation, Punishment and Division (साम, दाम, दण्ड, भेद). His works of wisdom are more than 2000 years old, still many of his teachings are relevant and useful in today's world. There are some arguments about his exact place of birth or date of birth etc. but these technical details are not that important than critical study of his works. There are also different opinions about type of person he was, common beliefs are that he was a crafty politician, ruthless manipulator who cared little for means used in the achievement of ends. Some critics criticized his ways and methods but his work is very widely appreciated and studied even today. The scope and range of his intellect should be self evident with the variety of subjects he dealt with, in his works one can not only see the versatility but also notice accuracy, applicability and relevance of many of his ideas. Some of his famous quotes are,

If the rulers are righteous, people are righteous. If they are sincere, people are also sincere, like ruler, like people.
Governance is possible only with assistance. A single wheel doesn't move. Hence ministers should be appointed and their counsel listened to.
A ruler with contiguous territory is a rival. The ruler next to adjoining one is to be deemed as a friend.
One should fight with an inferior enemy but sign a treaty of peace with ones equal and superior.
Enemy’s actions should be watched.
The weak should seek refuge in the strong.
One who desires speedy accomplishments of tasks does not look to the stars to know his fortune. Rational prognostics are superior to stars in guidance.
Equal attention should be paid to the performance of righteous duty duty, acquisition of material wealth and enjoyment of physical pleasures. Any of these if excessively indulged harms itself and the other two.
That mother and that father are enemies who do not give education to their children.
Children should obey their parents and should look after them when they are in difficulty.
The mirage looks like water. An enemy can look like friend.
In the fight between the dog and pig, the ultimate victory is that of pariah who gets the meat to eat.
A dog on land drags crocodile. A crocodile in water drags dog, the place of fight is important.
Anger is the origin of all legal disputes, murder also results from anger.
One should not argue with intelligent, the foolish, friends, teachers and the beloved.
One who is not calm and collected cannot accomplish the task. 
One should decide first and then commence the task.
Prosperity lasts long for one who acts after proper consideration.
The one who knows the means makes impossible possible.
Those who blindly believe in destiny do not achieve anything. 
He who does not see action is blind.
The one who knows cow's nature gets the milk.
Flawless jobs are rare.
There is no attraction equal to gift.
Sting of words is stronger than fire.
Avoid him who talks sweetly before you but tries to ruin you behind your back, for he is like a pitcher of poison with milk on top.

I can go on quoting him like this, there are many meaningful quotes like these mentioned in his books 'Arthashastra' and 'Neetishastra'. These quotes cover variety of subjects starting with ethics to economics, politics to philosophy, sex to scholastic. After reading his most of the work there is no doubt that he was visionary and his theories of administration are one of the best. But as V. K Subramanian says “it will be however incorrect to assume that his thinking was not limited in certain aspects, especially his views about women”. This might be because of social environment of that time and his limited personal experience with women. He lived in male dominated society where women had limited influence and scope. This must have created heavy bias in his views about women, some of his views about women are not very kind and not at all relevant in today's world. 

I don't know what made him to conclude that women cannot be trusted and have inherent tendencies of low moral character and falsehood. May be he wrote these things on purpose to avoind distraction of his male students but some views he expressed about women are totally outrageous and insulting to them, for example have a look at following lines,

One should not place trust in rivers, animals with horns, armed ones, women or in ruling families.
Women are fickle minded. He also says 'Only women could speak falsehood'
Untruthfulness, rashness, guile, stupidity, avarice, uncleanliness and cruelty are women's seven natural flaws.
Fire, water, women, fool, snake and the royal family, beware of all these, they can prove fatal.
Courtesy should be learned from princes, the art of conversation from pundits, lying from gamblers and deceitful ways from women.
Women have hunger two fold, shyness four fold, daring six fold and lust eight fold compared to men. (One wonders by what means Chanakya measures these abstract qualities of women)

According to him good women is the one who is pious, expert in household chores, true and faithful to her husband and who never speaks lie to him. A great intellectual like him also was not free from male dominant attitude. He even says 'A women who keeps fast without permission of her husband shortens the life of her husband. She goes to hell and is punished with great horrors of hell.' At some places he even treats women like commodity, 'For good days one should save money, women should be protected even if it takes the money saved. But for self preservation the money and the women should be sacrificed!!.'

So one can see that such a learned man also was not free from bias against women, his teachings related with politics, economics and governance are superb and should be studied in great detail but it's better to totally ignore his views about women. One should not think that as Chanakya was great politician and thinker all his views are right and his views about women should not be criticized because he was great administrator of his time. We can see that his views about women are totally biased and must be based on his limited interaction with women in his life and profession. It's also possible that Chanakya may not have spoken or written all these demeaning things about women attributed to him. These texts are very old and many people must have contributed to preserve them and recover them, things get modified, added or deleted sometimes, we never know, but these views are present in his books which are available today. May be its time to challenge them openly and also put a warning that some of those books contain some derogatory remarks about women, so at least reader is warned in advance rather than getting shocked while reading them. 

Some readers complained when I criticized some purports from Prabhupad's book 'Bhagavad Gita as it is' in which he makes similar comments about women. The problem there was, he passed on his own views as something from Bhagavad Gita which is not true at all, those are clearly Prabhupad's own views about women. The views expressed in Chanakya's book are also his own, he doesn't take shelter of any scripture or try to give any divine angle to his views. That's the difference between these two views, I think readers will understand what I am trying to say here. This is not an attempt to criticize Chanakya as a person or to malign his image. Many times we try to divide world into either all good or all bad, we try to paint either white or black (this results in attitude either accept everything whatever is said or reject all) but many times its mixture of both good and bad (grey). So let's keep what is good and reject the rest.

I already mentioned in some of my posts that prejudice and bias against women was very strong, it's not less than a miracle that they survived and fought back to reclaim their position in society. Let's not encourage such comments anymore which insult their spirit and womanhood.

Thanks for reading and please share your views on this topic.

Links:
3. Maxims of Chanakya:Kautilya. AbhinavPublications by V. K. Subramanian (1980)

[Copyright: Vinay Thakur. Please contact the author for re-posting or publishing]

396 comments:

  1. He may be a good advisor for other things but he didn't know anything about women it seems!

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  2. Somehow I feel that any man or philosopher who was aware of the essence of power and where power lies was afraid of women. Hence the baseless philosophy on such amoral tendencies in women in spite of a dearth of any facts. In fact, most Hindu writings actually depicting women and their karma prove otherwise -- the philosophical musings and the absolute truth (if an account of karma can be assumed truth) are at complete odds in Hindu literature and oratory. Women are often known to be, in practice, highly intelligent and pious beings by nature upon whom atrocities are inflicted and whose inner powers are beyond measure and capable of destroying worlds. Jesus Christ had said he was no miracle maker -- only the belief in him elicited the miracles. If people believe in themselves, they are capable of things beyond imagination. If women are trained not to believe, and all the men around them trained so ... this power is forever trapped. Just to clarify here, I am not saying women are more powerful than men. I simply wish to suggest that women have different powers of equal value that many such men, otherwise sound in their thinking, were afraid to let out of their personal control.

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    1. Very good comment Anila. As I said its not less than a miracle that women didn't loose their confidence even after so many years of suppression and fought back against all odds to reclaim their glory and position in society. But even today we can see in many countries and societies strong bias and prejudice exists against them under the name of religion, tradition and culture...we need to stop that not only for the sake of women but for the progress of humanity...sooner we understand this better for us..

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  3. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5bf7e9c2-57de-11e1-b089-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1u6y2Kdjv

    http://greatnessofwomen.com/

    http://people-equation.com/the-power-of-women/

    ..... and we say... WE MEN !!

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  4. Somehow Friedrich Nietzsche concur to Chankya's view about women after 2200 years, Call him misogynist but I wonder if there was no truth if what Chankya said.

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    1. sure his views are very much in line with Chanakya's and not only this guy you can find many more (yes, including great philosophers, scientists etc) who think like that...so what? many intellectuals also believe that untouchability is justified or in race superiority or this universe was created by somebody in seven days...and many things like this...does that mean all these views have some element of truth??

      There was no truth in Chanakya's views about women, he just listed his observations based on his limited interaction with women of his era...all these qualities (or drawbacks) are equally found in men and women...they are not gender specific..

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    2. once we remember that Kautilya/Chanakya was not a saint or moralist or even a spiritual leader but he was a political teacher, strategist and adviser. Then we can understand his point of view, all this can be considered as part of his strategy to keep the ruler (male king in Chanakya's era) focused on his target.

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    3. To quote Kautilya you need to be on par of his intelligence. We all know his knowledge regarding politics. He was a knowledgeable and Intelligent man. Hence his thoughts about women are correct without any thoughts. To understand that why he is correct you have to understand the underlying observation which seems you haven't.

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    4. Did I say anything about his intelligence or his knowledge about politics and governance? Did you read the post completely?

      [[He was a knowledgeable and Intelligent man. Hence his thoughts about women are correct without any thoughts]]

      If one person is expert in one field does that mean he is expert in all fields? Is this what you want to tell me? And you are right man, his thoughts are correct if you accept them without any thoughts and for that matter any thought is correct and acceptable if you accept it without any thoughts...great..now I clearly understand the reason behind all pro-women suppression or anti women liberation comments here, thanks for clarifying it.

      But my problem is I am a scientist and I am trained not to accept any thing, anything without giving it a thought, questioning it and validating it, may be it's not your way but it's my way.

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    5. damn it if u r scientist ....then u must know this that behaviour pattern of man and a woman are completely different......even there thinking and speaking patterns.......everytime a difference is spotted between two genders somebody like u comes up and posts all this shit ......men and women can never be equal... both have pro's and con's over the other......u should stop comparing apple with oranges and then showing ur stupidity and telling that u r scientist........and at last i should tell u this that a sociologist understands the social issues better than any stupid scientist............u have correctly mentioned that "but my problem is i am a scientist".......I M SURE IT UR BIG PROBLEM

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    6. haha..you can dam anything which you want, thats your problem...and who is talking here about behavioral pattern? It is different for Indian and Americans too, does that mean people from one particular nation are superior to other?

      Who said that man and woman can never be equal? DO you have any scientific evidence to prove that? Both have pro's and con's, so no gender is perfect, then why to target only one and stereotype it? I am not comparing anything here, for me there is no comparison as both are equal, poor Chanakya did that now go and tell him not to compare oranges with apples...:)

      Yes, sociologist...social issues..good you are getting there, keep it up...so these are sociological issues not gender related, if you got this point then the post will make more sense to you...and at least in my case, I know my problem, let me know once you figure it out yours...:)

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    7. Read the post carefully first.Nowhere in my previous post I mentioned anybody's superiority over the other.

      Spotting somebody's traits does not mean comparison in any sense......and y u get offended for that.

      You want scientific evidence on the "inequality" of the gender....had i mentioned "inequality" or "difference"....My scientist friend "difference"..."inequality"....and "superiority" are different terms dont mix them......here is one of the many difference "the physical strenght"!!!.... on the basis of physical strength men outdo women.....whereas on the scale of delicacy and daintiness women outdo men....and that does not make anyone superior over the other.
      chankya never compared men with women.....so there is no point of me going there and explaining the concepts of apples and oranges.

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    8. You are right Shashank..these all terms are different and they can be used in various ways...no one need to do any research or read Chanakya to know that men and women are different, we know that from our childhood and its pretty obvious physically so if you didn't know we are not talking here about physical differences or even physical strength, that's not an issue here. I thought that people will understand this but it seems its not that obvious so lets clear this doubt first.

      Secondly there is huge difference between saying "men and women are different" and [[men and women can never be equal.]], when you say not equal that means one is greater (or smaller) than other, this is what it means...according to me different things with all their differences in place can be equal. I think I am not mixing any terms here.

      Who said that the post is about Chanakya's comparison of men with women? There is indirect comparison at some places if you bother to look deeply but that's not a issue here. The post is about his biased views about women and some insulting remarks and I think you are wise enough to understand to insult anyone one don't have to always compare.

      I am glad that you also think that there is no issue of superiority between both the genders (which again means both are equal), that's what the post is all about "equality" it's not about "similarity", if we agree on this then there is nothing to argue, we are on same page, may be we express it in different way and that's fine.

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    9. u got it bro........nobody is superior over the other.....only they have specific characteristics.....bro u only mentioned that chankya compared men and women....[[I am not comparing anything here, for me there is no comparison as both are equal, poor Chanakya did that now go and tell him not to compare oranges with apples...:)]]

      anyways we concluded with convergence!!

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  5. His intention was keep chandragupt to remain focus rather get distracted,so to keep him away from love,lust he might have done that.
    -Rahul Karn
    http://informationdevelopers.blogspot.com/

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    1. may be thats is one way of looking at these views...but this also proves that his (Chanakya's) comments related with women should not be considered as authentic (or accurate) compared to his other views related with politics and governance...

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  6. when we want to comment on great peoples work first we must have the qualification to do that.what is your qualification to comment on this matter.you must be a fool to comment on what doctors work when your are not doctor.your are just like dog barking at the sun ..no value...

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    1. really..I didn't know that you have to be a doctor to comment when they sometimes mess up some patients operation or make some serious mistakes...I thought that some common sense is enough for this....but may be you think otherwise...and taking into consideration the logic you proposed what is your qualification to comment on my post??? is it like another dog barking at sun..:)...please comment about Chanakya's views about women and your take on that...that will be much helpful...

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    2. hey...... all don't comment on chankya.. he is very good teacher and whatever he said is totally correct regardless the topic. as far as woman is concerned then only mother is only woman in the universe to whom you can trust.. so please stop commenting on chankya.. he is god gifted and we all are very small in front of him

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    3. "he is very good teacher and whatever he said is totally correct regardless the topic"
      really...I dont think so...his views about women are really very questionable and I have discussed that in this post.

      "as far as woman is concerned then only mother is only woman in the universe to whom you can trust"
      how come..that mother is also a wife, sister or friend of someone so how can be she trusted..and what about men? and let me tell again this post is not about Chanakya this is about his views about women...if you agree with his views then good luck but I don't agree that's why I discussed then in this post..

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    4. Again you don't understand it. Its not the Women, Its the woman in the position as MOTHER you can trust. Same woman which can be trusted as mother always cannot be trusted as any other role may be( like wife). May be c is untruthful wife but always loving mother.
      Man you need a brain to understand what he really wants to say. Vedic Culture not only Chanakys is against Women independence. You know why ? Precious things are not kept independent. When they have it they become cheap. What is happening to women is the Side effect of women liberation. Women are precious to us. Hence respected. But when they Show characteristics of a women not a slut. As its said Nariyal chahe kitna bhi bada ho uski jagah dali ke niche hai.

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    5. [[Precious things are not kept independent. When they have it they become cheap.]]

      really?? man..do you really mean this?? Women are Precious things according to you?? For your information they are also humans like men, they are not things. They are equal to men in all respects (rather slightly more capable because they can bear children but men can't). SO dont try to put value on them, they are not THINGS but real person and one can not increase or decrease value of a person.

      [[Same woman which can be trusted as mother always cannot be trusted as any other role]]

      then what about men? can they be trusted in any role? even as a father? so what is so special about women? According to you at least they can be trusted as mother, but what about men? So why to comment only about women like this? do you have any explanation?

      Vedic Culture not only Chanakys is against Women independence. You know why?"

      Bingo...thanks a lot man for accepting it...brilliant..you included all Vedic culture also...they are against women independence, I know why because all is written by men, very simple, so they made rules which suit them, is this difficult to guess? May be it is for you and I can totally understand that. I know why you are scared of women independence, don't worry no one can stop it whether you like it or not it's going to happen, so deal with it.

      [[Women are precious to us. Hence respected. But when they Show characteristics of a women not a slut.]]

      Can you tell me what do you mean by slut? do you know any similar term for men? and if you don't then have you ever thought why there is no term like this for men? I am sure not, because you think if men do any such thing (which so called sluts do) then it's OK, it's their right but women should not cross the boundary, right? what a great culture man, but sorry I am not part of this culture.

      [[Nariyal chahe kitna bhi bada ho uski jagah dali ke niche hai]]

      Yes, true for Nariyal (coconut) and dali (branch) but woemn are not Nariyar and who is 'dali' here? such a poor and pathetic logic man, grow up, get well and live life of your own not dictated by some book or some age old outdated customs.

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  7. add to further .. actually I know one thing actually there is rasayanshastra as well ..on that basis this is the percentage of women which is much higher according to chankya and they are not faithful so this is not for each and every women .. he has said very good sentences about women .. can you all please see the youtube video where sir chankya was addressing Ambhik's wife? I cant stopping thanking to chankya as really he was only one who has saved our india and .. even sikandar couldn't move futher and coudn't rule over india and gone back to pavilion .

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    1. First of all thanks a lot for your comment and sharing your views about this topic. I am sure that you must have noticed but if not then let me tell you that this post is not about Chanakya but it is only about his views about women. I wonder how you come to the conclusion that women are not faithful...I am interested in knowing your method..off course he had said few good sentences about women but that doesn't give him right to say some bad things about them and this post is specifically about how he messed up his opinion about women, not to challenge his views about politics and governance...and there are many, many people who contributed towards progress and welfare of India..Chanakya was one of them...

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  8. dear vinay... I know you respect women but this is the percentage...
    I don't have inertia in my mind I agree about ur point but if you see the % then you wil come to know the truth as far rasanshastra is concerned then this is not specific to chankya theory .. this is about the rasayan and nagarjun developed that if you want to know then you can buy a book of nagarjun and he has has the same though bt again this is only percentage wise not for every woman.. n one more this you can see the list released by (boston university) of famous and talened people in the world then chankaya is at number one position ... and he is the only one who defeated sikander without any battle.. n he is just our Guru.. and we all should pranam ti him... also he is the only guru who has given very good speech about women and address them to fight against injustice ... ex: Ambhik's wife.. so he was really unique and most talented person

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    1. Thanks again Abhi for your inputs, I agree with you that Chanakya was exceptionally talented and self motivated man, his work in the area of politics and governance is unmatched and he deserves lot of respect for this. I am not saying anything against Chanakya in this post, this post is just an example to show that even talented intellectual like him can also have biased views about women (may be because of social situation and condition of women that time). Women are suppressed for centuries and some of the qualities you are mentioning in your post become necessary for their survival, we have come too far from the era of Chanakya and in today's world women have equal rights and status..

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  9. One more thing actually it is written by chankya is mother is most trusted person for her child.

    I understand she can be friend , sister etc..
    but she will never break her child's trust

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    1. I agree that Mother-child is one of the most special relationships in this world...and she does everything to protect her child..

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  10. I know its been a long time. But i find your discussion interesting. First of all thanks to Mr.Vinay for presenting some info regarding chanakya. Mr. Vinay what i find interesting is Chanakya has said a lot about men too but i don't find you discussing about that. I think what he told about foolish people or selfish friend or intellectual people didn't bother you. Because you took the versus as they are. Please don't generalize every woman to be too good or will be like our own mother or sister. You are only looking at the positive side of the women. when there is positive you need to understand negative too exists. What Chanakya referred in his writings were about the women who are filled with negative thoughts. He said about Women who are weak in their character. The same applies for men too. He appreciated women in several references. Right from Chanakya's time till now centuries might have passed and more centuries will pass too . The only growth humans have achieved from then to now is in technology. But man's nature remains the same. There is a reason why they call them as Sayings. I'm not against women in fact i love them too. I'm just trying to show you another view to your point my friend. No offence :)

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    1. Thanks a lot Bobby for your comment. I also think that there is a high possibility that Chanakya was referring to women who are filled with negative thoughts, but then he doesn't say that very clearly. I also agree that one should not generalize any comments bit if one reads the text of his writings some of these observations look like very generalized comments. I also think that these comments are specific to what he came across in his life and his interaction with women, and that's the whole point of this post that Chanakya said so many good things about women (within social context of that time), his wisdom about politics and governance was nonparallel but that doesn't means whatever he wrote is like law and should be followed no matter what. Role of women has changed over the years in our society and even in families and some of the things which he mentioned are no more relevant, that doesn't make him wrong or any less intelligent but his views were based of society in which he lived and we are living in totally different society.

      He wrote so many things and if I want to discuss all of his writings then I don't know how many posts it will take, I choose only selected lines just to show that such a intelligent man also can be sometimes biased about certain gender and even today also we see this thing happening when many qualified and intelligent people make some totally ridiculous statement.

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    2. Dear Vinay, I will tell you only one thing.. Every one should break his/her inertia to accept the thoughts... don't you really think whatever he said is really correct?? Because there many people before us accepted his thoughts and they were more matured than us and there are many female who also believed in chankya's thoughts... so can you please fight against female thoughts against female first .. then we will think about Men also most the women dominated by women only...and whatever he said ..why we can't deny is because he is best teacher in this universe and this not only I am saying it is written in history.. again I am saying exception for Men and Women are very much possible I am not denying

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    3. Thanks again Abhi for your comment and I agree that everyone needs to be open minded to accept new ideas and concepts. I think it is pretty clear from my post that I don't agree with most of the things which he said about women in general, if he was talking about any specific woman or some particular type of women then I can understand some of his comments but if its about women in general then according to me it's totally wrong.

      Yes, there are many females who believed and still believe in Chanakya's thoughts and I also believe in many of his thoughts but not all of them. Some (or even Many) women believing his thoughts doesn't make them right, there are many so called lower caste people who believe that they are inferior to so called upper caste people just because they were born in particular family but that doesn't make caste system right, or does it according to you?

      My fight is not against any particular gender or class, I have my own way of thinking and I question whatever I find inappropriate or wrong. Women are tortured or dominated by men or other women, it doesn't matter who is dominating who is not an issue here that mindset which makes some believe that they are superior than others is an issue here. Chanakya was good administrator and philosopher I don't know whether he was a good teacher or not as I have not read much about his teaching skills. History is always written by people and they can have certain bias so everyone is free to have their own conclusions from history, may be according to you Chanakya is best teacher in entire universe but that's not the case according to me.

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    4. hi Vinay...I am confused whether you r present minded or absent minded... or mentally retired.... in your post you only wrote that you don't know much about chankya teaching skill so mister how you are able to comment??????? and so whatever abhi and rupali said you need to study more is quite correct so better go and take knowledge about the chankya.. and as far as Sachin tandulker is concernd then he is best cricketer I am not denying but yes we can't take his example for chankya's story ... and visit below link then you will come to know whether he is a good teached or not.. you don't know even the very basic thing about chankya then how you can say that before writing about him you studied about him a lot... surprisingly.. I am very sorry to say you are really unaware person and very rigid so no body can make you understand.. dear I was giving you exam for your patience just to chk you and sorry for abusing language but neither you know about chankya nor you are even a basic commenter so please keep quite and study more then say any thing about chankya's any area..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_F2o_Eex4

      Bye live in ur world...

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    5. Thanks again Preeti for your compliments and I very well know what based on your standards but thanks anyway for telling me. Now lets come to the point as I am not interested in making any personal comments on this forum.

      I never commented about Chanakya's teaching abilities or his role as a teacher, if you can please read all the comments and my post and also try to understand it, I know it's difficult for you but just give it a try. The post is exclusively about his views about women, the title itself suggests that and I hope you guys and gals are capable enough to understand it, if not then I can't help it.

      Poor Vishnu, I dont think even you understood what he meant, but any way I expected that and you didn't disappoint me.

      It's very easy to make me understand, shoe me the proof, produce the data and real examples then do you think anyone can deny? Just talk doesn't help, I have seen enough capable women and seen them succeeding in every field to say that whatever Chanakya wrote about women is not true today, these characteristics are found both in men and women and it depends on social structure which gender shows what traits, they are not based on gender but on social environment. But I am sure you people are not interested in any of this research and argument because you people love to worship people and accept all their ideas, I have no problem with it but then keep it to yourself, I am not telling you to what to do, thats your job to decide.

      Thanks for testing me, don't worry you are not the first one to claim this or to attempt this, good try. I dont care about it as it's not the intention behind this blog. The blog is to share my thoughts and you are free to agree or disagree with it and I will really appreciate if we stick to the point rather than testing each others patience and offering unsolicited advises. I studied enough of Chanakya to understand that his views about women were based on limited interactions he had with them in his life, they were not wrong as far as his personal experience with them is concerned, but they are not at all applicable to women in general and thats what I wrote in my post, many understood it but there are few who didn't...

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  11. Dear Vinay... If its your thinking then I can't challenge you..

    I also respect your own thinking....but as far as teacher is concerned then he is only the person who has taught Chandragupta Maurya and saved our BHRAT from Sikander..Calisthenics has written that Chankya is the best teacher in the universe and I belive he is our real father of nation and whatever he said is just a not a line we read but what is the actual meaning behind it we all need to know completely then only we can discuss over it... and for women, Krishna also said and udhisther also said so they have said just not for all women but they said comparatively women are like that... no point in discussion .. If women want to prove themselves then they are free now a days.. and they are getting enough support also .. so better we should advise every one to make their identity regardless gender.. Once one woman can be a unique personality like chankya then every one can accept that without any debate ...

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    1. Who said what about women is their personal perspective I don't have any problem or issues with that but at the same time I am not supposed to agree with whatever they said just because of monumental nature of their personality. Do you really still think that women need to prove themselves that they are equally capable if not more than men? really? I have seen many women who are incredible and unique personality. Chanakya is just one of famous person from Indian history there are many like him in all cultures around the world you just need to open your eyes and look around.

      The talent and capabilities of women are already proven and accepted, if that news has not yet reached to you then let me be the messenger of that news, they don't need to prove anything but rather onus is on men or people who doubt their capabilities and potential to prove why they think women can no be equal to men.

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    2. Please read about chankya first... and don't compare him with all other famous personality.. I know many of the famous personality who already found chankya as their ideal okay... and I am upset now really who told you that chankya story is fictious.. so boss if don't want to change your interia keep it with you only.. but infront of every one you can put your thoughts but cant say fiction kind of word to a person because of him bharat has its own existence and you and me are having food peacefully ... and most of the personality are at very much below level okay mr. vinay my dear friend

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    3. I have already read enough about Chanakya before writing this post and this post is not about Chanakya as a person, teacher or administrator, read it carefully, it's only about opinion he expressed about women, I think I made this thing very clear in my post. I did not compare him with anybody, please check it carefully, rather you are comparing him with everyone and trying to put him above everyone, not me...so please check the facts before writing.

      Did I call that Chanakya story 'factious'? Really?? Did you read carefully what I wrote? I believe not, I said there are many stories about many people like this and 'some' of them are fictions, created to teach people good things. I see nothing wrong in this and I was not at all talking about 'that particular' story, OK, I hope things are more clear to you now.

      Bharat or India survived and progressed because of many people, Chanakya is just one of them. If according to you Chanakys is the only reason then good for you, be happy about it but for me he is not the only reason and I dont rank people in levels for me all are same.

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  12. http://balsanskar.com/english/lekh/322.html

    Please visit thins link just to know some more thing about chankya... not related to this topic

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    1. Thanks for the link, I already know most of these stories and you can find many stories like these about almost any character who is famous and celebrated personality there is nothing special, these stories are just there to inspire people to do something good and some of them are fictional but still very good to read and learn some good things.

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    2. You really don't know any thing about chankya... boss you need to refer good books .. an before saying about other like keep your eyes open first see urself...and who said men has not proven themselves.. so boss I am not against woman but saying you should first read about the chankya and then comment ... what you know about him.. can you please tell me... and I also want to know more about him and whatever I knew abt him .. he is not only a person but a VICHAR(in hindi)..

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    3. Hi Abhi..... I just saw your quote it is wonderful.. And Vinay ji... mai bhi ek ladki hoon aur who r u tell anything for chankya guruji... ladkiyaan hi saari ladai ki jad thi .. pehle ka war me ja ke dekho jara.. I want change myself and want to lern.. so keep your mouth shut you are nothing but skilled barbarian.. and many thanks abhi ji aapke vichar bahut acche hain...

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    4. Do you guys really read what I write? if you read do you both (Abhi and Preeti) try to understand what does it mean?

      Did I say ANYWHERE that men have not proven themselves? show me than sentence and then comment something like this, may be you didnt get what I wrote, let me try again, I said men who accuse women not equal to men need to prove their statement...did you now understand the difference? I hope that you do?

      I have read enough about Chanakya, let me know what you need to know about him, all the information is available in books and also most of it online you can read yourself.

      First of all thanks Preeti for your comment, and what do you mean by who am I to comment about Chanakya? Can you please tell me who I need to be to comment about Chanakya? Your statement "adkiyaan hi saari ladai ki jad thi" (women were the only reason for all the wars) itself shows in what direction you are thinking, please go and read the history first and don't give your species so importance that to claim it a reason for all the conflicts..:) study bit more..

      "pehle ka war me ja ke dekho jara" what do you mean? are you joking? may be Abhi got this one but I fail to understand this line unless its a joke...:)

      It's good that you want to change yourself, and by the way who are you to tell me to shut up? Skilled barbarian?? What you know about me to use these terms, now I know why you said you need to change yourself...I clearly see that you got lot of work to do in that direction...May be Chanakya was talking about women like you, that's why you found his description so accurate...I have personally seen and met many amazing women in my life and that's why I don't agree with his views, you are free to agree and accept them and I am not going to say 'shut up' to you, my training and culture doesn't teach me to shut people up, rather keep on expressing your opinion and 'speak up'...thanks and good luck..

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    5. hehehe... This is your real character dear vinay.. I have said two lines to you and your patience got broken... so stop taking about others and what you know about chankya.. I am very sure you are not only skilled barbarian but barbarian only... and bharat ko azad kerane mai chankya ji lead the .. so indication is enough for intelligent so I am not sure about you...I know your are really a dog barking towards sun.. nothing else .. I don't care about your bullshit thoughts jo bade bade logo ko bina samjhe jaane kuch bhi bol diya muh utha ke.. go and learn how to behave for freedom fighters then talk about guruji.. give a single woman name who can compete with guruji..

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    6. Hi Preeti.. Please don't use such words please ..Vinay is like our brother only but needs good education and need to know more about chankya so please stop abusing him..we all are friend if one is lacking somewhere so we can guide him in polite manner.

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    7. Thanks Abhi, but don't worry, I am used to language like this. Most people when they run out of words and ideas or when they see they can not prove their point use such language and there is nothing surprising about it. By doing this they think they are scoring some point or might scare other person but it doesn't work that way, so I have no problems with her language or words it shows her culture and upbringing not mine, thanks though for your support.

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    8. :)...patience got broken? what does that even mean? I think you love to draw your own conclusions, superb..keep going, but please give some evidence also, that will help others to understand what you mean. Please don't worry about my patience, I have enough of it, let's see how long your patience survives without getting broke..:)

      Bharat ko aazad? really? kisasey aazad? please read the history and then make some statements like this. Off course I am not so called 'intelligent person', I don't claim to be, I am just a normal person, I hope this will help you to write your next comments accordingly...:)

      [I don't care about your bullshit thoughts jo bade bade logo ko bina samjhe jaane kuch bhi bol diya muh utha ke.. go and learn how to behave for freedom fighters then talk about guruji]

      One kind suggestion, please go and learn to behave with others and then teach some one what he or she needs to learn, I have huge respect for Chanakya and if you don't see it it's your problem not mine. Who told you to care about my thoughts? I am sure you won't be commenting about them here if you don't care..:)

      [give a single woman name who can compete with guruji..]

      You ask me name of some women who can compete with your Guruji?? really?? does this how you test your idols? then good luck with that...for your kind information there are numerous, literally numerous women and men whose opinion and views about women and their capabilities are much better, wiser and sensible than Chanakya's, there are just too many to list them...first try to understand the post and then throw some emotional sentences like this...thanks

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    9. Vinay ... Now I am very much sure that you don't know abt respect and all and what you know about my culture see about your culture first what kind of education you have ... I just said it deliberately .. you know why ,, because your kind of person make our leaders image down.. without knowing anything... So you have proved you are nothing but half minded person who believe they can write such a stupid comment to any famous personality and can become famous .. To get the fem ..defame some one... abhi ji please sorry but some person need hard treatment.. so I gave 2 Vinay

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    10. Vinay.. U r a dirty person I have ever seen... Tell me the name to whom you found better than chankya... please submit it and then I will see how many person like your opnion.. u r such a coward person nothing else .. y u r telling that u respect chankya .. u r not respecting him at all u know... actually be genuine and honest when u say some thing... u r nothing infront of chankya .. and please go and wash you face and see the mirror where u stand..

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    11. I am glad to know that you said it deliberately, and for your information whatever we write here we all write it deliberately. I know very well about my culture and education and I think it shows in everyone's behavior and language, so don't worry about it, people will figure it out.

      I am not making anybody's image down or up here, I am just expressing my opinion (if you know what it means), so get that straight. I don't have to prove to you or anybody who I am and what are my capabilities, so be cool and just chill, I don't need fame and thanks for your treatment, I really enjoyed it.

      So you want the name of person who have better views about women than Chanakya? Good to see that, actually I dont have to go that far for this, please read this post,

      http://bellejarblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/i-am-not-your-wife-sister-or-daughter/

      whoever is author of this post (her name doesn't matter to me) has much better assessment about women, there are many posts like this which are amazing and much more respectful to women and their capabilities, I hope you are capable enough to search them yourself, if not then let me know I will find more as I have read so many of them.

      I never claimed that I am something in front of Chanakya, how did you get this impression? But I am not surprised, and by the way thanks for all your advise you are offering to me they are really enlightening..and very thoughtful too..:) keep them coming.

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    12. Preeti, I have a simple story for you. I was an average badminton player at my college, and during a college badminton championship, my match was against our best player. Without surprise, I lost, and the champion being not respective, laughed at me as if I am hopeless.

      Then came table tennis championship (and later cricket), the same badminton champ was my opponent. Though I wasnt a champion, I was more than good enough for that guy to claim victory. I had a option to laugh at that guy, but me being me, simply took a lesson, noone is useless, you cant compare two personalities. Someone might be better at something else. Forget about two different games, I still cant compare sachin's batting to dravid's or lara's or ponting's or kallis's. You might find so many saing sachin is best, but truth is, they were all great, you cant compare. Same thing here, chanakya was great, no doubt, but so is everyone. Unfortunately we Indians do not have ability to take criticism lightly, because of our so called all or none policy (respect or dont respect, either accept everything or dont accept everything). My clear impression from Vinay's post is, he is saying that Chanakya was great (like my badminton champion friend), but his thoughts on women were questionable (like playing table tennis). If sachin tomorrow is unable to play table tennis doesnt make him less great, does it?

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    13. Very well said Vishnu...I don't think I can offer any better explanation than this...thanks a ton..

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    14. Its a matter of interpretation. What chankya percieved about women was correct. Statistics say it. Its not questionable(only fools consider questionable).The condition of many women in modern-day so called liberated society has become very degraded, miserable and most unfortunate. Independence of women has been and remains largely but an exploitative way to abuse women in so many ways as seen in the references covering various statistics. To remedy such a situation, there is need to understand the perennial teachings of the Vedas which give us clear and unwavering instructions on the role and importance of women within general society. Adopting such views will help bring back to glory of women in society and help bring again the social stability and harmony we are all seeking.

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    15. Thanks a lot for your comment Om Prakash...and really man are you kidding or serious...do you even know what you are saying??? Statistics say its not questionable? What is not questionable? Which statistics? can you give me the reference? Which world you are living where it is believed that women are any less reliable than men?

      How many modern day liberal societies your have visited and lived in? What you know about condition of women there compared to your so called cultured society which treats women as commodity and nothing else?

      Don't try to deliver all crap which doen't have any significance in today's world, I have also read Veda's and know that there are many good things in them. Poor Vishnu his all effort to explain you guys was waste...I think his comment was not even properly read forget about understanding it.

      What role women have in society according to you? and don't worry about glory of women in society, they (women) are on their way to get it and they dont need your and my help in that, OK..ohh man get some help, you need it and get well soon.

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  13. Interesting streak of comments, it's not surprising to see that a woman trying to defend a person (because of his name and stature) who made some demeaning comments about women, I have seen it many times all over the world and this reminds me my post "When the bird starts loving its cage.

    http://selfrealization-vinay.blogspot.com/2012/08/when-bird-starts-loving-its-cage.html

    The post is all about what years of suppression and bad mouthing can to a person or any community, that particular entity looses confidence in itself and starts believing whatever is being propagated about them or hammered on their mind, they loose self confidence, self respect and just surrender to the forceful lies thrown at them and slowly accept it as their fate and reality. Then it takes lot of courage, struggle and sacrifice to come out of it and there are examples of many people and communities to came out of that jinx but one can see that some are still stuck in past, in same bracket where dominant species wanted them to put..so clearly lot of work is still required.

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    1. What post you are showing in this link it is clearly written women can stop battle so who is the root cause of battle better women needs to improve themselves first..yes I can say it is a good link but what about bad points about women .. do u want such link then no need go and see mahabharat dropadi what she said to duryodhan for his father then only this battle done and man you are here saying about chankya so go and see the wiki answer of chankya history .. you will find far better links over there and also he has said many good lines for women so stop your dirty mouth.. I read your previous comment you don't even know that he is best teacher even father of economics so go and say sorry to everybody .. tum jaise hazar aaye aur gaye .. khud ko kuch kerna nahi hai bus lage faltu comment kerne ..tell me what u earn about chankya..??? and tell me what happened to him at his childhood stage.. and such to ye hai ki bahut saari ladkiyaa hoti hi selfish hain..

      http://greathistoricpersonalitychanakya.blogspot.com/2011/05/father-of-economics-chanakya.html

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    2. hi preeti...

      You are very correct the person who doesn't know about chankya he should better keep quiet .. so from my point of view Chankya is best forever and girls needs to improve themseves is really correct..even I have seen girls are enemy of girls so there is no role of males are dominant .. and yes some time girls are good also so exception are there.. but Mr. Vinay you really doesn't know about such great personality.. and you need to learn how to respect our real father of INDIA and ECONOMICS and POLITICS..

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    3. Did you read and even tried little bit to understand Mahabharat? Forget about Mahabharat, did you even read the post which I wrote above? If not them please go and read it and try to understand it and if you cant them please go to some person who can explain it to you properly, just barking won't help.

      I am not interested in playing quiz about Chanakya, answers to all these questions which you are asking about his life are already very well knows and are very easy to find for anyone so don't waste your as well as others time by asking some obvious questions. All your comments clearly show in which directions you are going...

      [such to ye hai ki bahut saari ladkiyaa hoti hi selfish hain]????

      hehehe...really?? I can only laugh at this...I must say brilliant, master stroke, I am sure many would get enlightened by this revelation by you, grow up and talk some sense, or just be happy in your own world...learn to communicate properly first and then discuss..all the very best and good luck.

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    4. Dear Rupali and Preeti, do you guys know what does it mean to show respect? Do you even know what respect means? I clearly show how much respect you guys have for your fellow women.

      It's 'your conclusion' that I don't have any respect for Chanakya, read the post and try to understand if you can. Raising the objection or questioning certain points does not mean showing disrespect in my culture, in my culture its perfectly OK and allowed, may be not in your culture or home.

      So you guys think good girls or women are exception?? really?? I am so sad to know that you haven't some across many good girls or women, may be eventually you will see them and then can see and understand the larger and clear picture. I am not shocked but somewhat surprised that you have such a low key opinion about people of your own gender. The qualities or bad qualities which you are talking about are found equally both in men and women, they are no gender specific, I hope you understand this, if not then please go back and study human behavioral science and get refreshed.

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    5. Mr Vinay.. Why are you telling a girl that she is barking .. what does it mean .. you were saying that you are cultured so me dear friend first you need to understand to whom you are judging ... you really need to know about chankya... and please without any base don't say any thing to him.. and by d way you are here in INDIA and living peacefully... beacuse we could get the indpendent INDIA ok go and say something in ARAB country about any thing abt any leadr they will make you feel like any thing.. so stop talking and say sorry at least for whatever you said earlier ... ok ...

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    6. I am also a married women and can say I also want my husband to live with me only without his parents but I have one good thing that I am honest in saying that I am selfish and whatever chankya said for women is correct for 99% of women...there are my so many friends who made their husband to leave their parents so what you say about this act.. and I really respect chankya.. because when my aunt son did the same thing for his mom wht my aunt did for their In laws so now we all ome to the conclusion that realy whatever chanya said is 110% correct only... there are some man also but they are not that much bad like girls

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    7. Dear Rupali...first of all can you please go back and check who used the term "barking" for the first time, and yes it is a inappropriate term, glad that you noticed it, so I wonder what Preeti feels about it? I was just giving her taste of her own medicine.

      I totally gave enough explanation on what I said about his statements in my post, the post is not about him but his views about women, I hope you understand the difference. And as far as current independent India in concerned how much Chanakya and his philosophy you see there?

      Whatever I write in my posts I write after studying that subject and show me the evidence that I am wrong then I will definitely correct bust just accusing won't help.

      I am not judging here any one, it's not my job and intention. I am expressing my opinion, I hope you understand the difference.

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    8. [there are my so many friends who made their husband to leave their parents so what you say about this act]

      now I can understand your inability to see beyond your own world and problems. I know from where all this women are bad and men are not that bad is coming from, don't worry you are not alone and there is huge world outside there...beyond your family and friends, beyond your city and state even beyond your country and many, many women live in it, if you get a change go and talk to them, try to understand them and then come back and talk about women in general, OK.

      So your friends made their husband's leave their parents, right? But why their husbands left them? Are they stupid? Don't they have their own brain? How one can force them to leave their parents if they don't want to leave them? Are they that weak? or they also didn't want to live with them? or when time came to choose between wife and parents they chose wife?

      Did you ask all these questions and tries to get the answers, may be not, then please try and see what you find. Try to look at both sides of problem not only one which you want or can see...as I said there is big world outside just take some effort to understand it..

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    9. That's y I am saying you don't abt him ... we all would have been slave of romans... really i am telling you go and see at least chandragupta Maurya.. I am not your teacher to teach you history ...ok .. and if r supporter of women then preeti migh have been taking your test... so I found you tamper less.. one thing you observed evry one here against you why?????? because you are somewhere wrong.. see in urself first.. and whatever you said is clearly said that you don't like chankya.. and really your link is nothing infront if chankya personality

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    10. vinay... I have my world bigger than you okay.. and women can ask men to live with their parents... yes they don't have their brain because female has eaten it.. ok...and chanky is one of the best speaker so don;t try to defame him... go and try to make your theory at your home and don't write us as guys,,, we are gals ok

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    11. really?? did't we became slaves anyway after that? I don't need a lesson of history from you, it was my favorite subject in school and I used to score really good in that so I assume by academic standards I was good at it. I still read a lot about history and as I said study before writing any post.

      OK so when Preeti writes something she is testing me right, but when I write it's disrespectful...do you even see any double standards here, I am sure not...but that's OK.

      I don't care how many people are with me or against me, I am not trained to follow majority opinion but trained to say what I feel is right so it doesn't matter to me how many support of oppose me, my opinion is not based on that and people like Chankya only taught me this.

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    12. [[and women can ask men to live with their parents... yes they don't have their brain because female has eaten it]]

      superb Rupali...great going, I didn't know that in your BIG world men do whatever women tell them to do..and they can eat the brain also..:) poor men...

      [[don't write us as guys,,, we are gals ok]]

      oops...sorry for that..but I think you know that 'guys' is a genderless term..
      check this..
      http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/11816/is-guy-gender-neutral

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/guys

      but may be not in your BIG world so sorry gals from next time it will be gals.

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  14. dear Vinay... Please go and have tea and silently read good books and know more about chankya .. you will really feel good and your mentality will be changed .. I am only give suggestion to you ,, not order..

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    1. sure Abhi that's what I do (read books)...and all which I wrote is after changed mentality only....thanks for the advise, I really appreciate it.

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  15. O ho... my mumma boy.. so u r very good in study ..aa le le le... you have read books so let me tell you have read the proverb " adhgar gaghri chalkat jaaye " so better you should study more ...

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    1. thanks a lot for delivering such a profound knowledge of English to me, you saved my life...:) but unfortunately the discussion is not abut my or your English..just chill..

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  16. Hi Vishnu,

    Whatever you said is sense able but dont you really thnik indian are good enough to take the responsibility of critisim .. even you know if anybody said abut our country he can easly stay here because we forget to respect out respectables .. and you gave only one examle but why we all worry about chankya is because he is greatest not only great .. and the views he presented is practicle not on the basis of male ego.. and if you belive or not but if you see bulk amount of females they are like that only.. otherwise I am also a woman so why I should fight aganist this post .. i am fighting about the truth and whatever we have written is nothing but less meaning debate better we should do some thing for our country.. and after reading peacfully most the women who comes under this category should realize and change themself... and we all are not only the people who accpted but if you go boston unversity and oxford also there is two major group women professors who agreed after a lot reaserch and accepted his thoughts I will definatey ask one lasy who is still professor there so she can explain you what exactly he said .. and we are debating on the basis of lack of knowledge .. even I also need to know more about chankya's thought and one more point the life he has survived is not only full with struggle but you will a real aacharya and real fighter then we all will respect chankya;s view .. and if he said correctly so whats the problem to accept is if any problem is there then express your views like chankya... so my dear friends whatever he said is not onlt correct but practically is 100% correct but I am still saying exceptions are there but men are also like the same but very less..

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    1. poor Vishnu must be banging his head why he even tried to explain things here in this debate...:) for get about understanding his comment I dont think people even properly read it...

      Vishnu you can clearly see the Stockholm syndrome here, Anila has explained it very nicely I am quoting her

      "Stockholm syndrome -- in this case, the kidnapper is a crippling ideology, and it is so well indoctrinated that the very subjects of abuse become the most powerful voices in favor of it."

      Do you think one can see better example than this. I have seen this think happening so many times in my life in my neighborhood where women were abused, beaten, sexually harassed, suppressed..but they never thought there is anything wrong in that because they totally believed that that's how women are treated in society...do we need any more conformation than all these comments by both males and females on this forum to confirm why all is still happening in our society and how tough is the battle to change all this?

      The effect of centuries of brain wash and suppression is huge, not easy to come out of it, that's why I always salute all women and men who fought against this mindset and showed courage to raise voice against this gender biased mindset.

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  17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZW_tv-bpPE

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    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5hUJj6buV0g&feature=endscreen


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cta8ogX-Qrs

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    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLN-oRG0_4

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQYoDftVyTU&list=PL7428D162F0904E10

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyDxNDmJzkk&list=PL7428D162F0904E10

      must watch below:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xsLZNlBxbY&list=PL3B30D5F187FBE898

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    3. know more

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A6rBHqD-H0&list=PL3B30D5F187FBE898

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    4. There is nothing new in any of these links which I already didn't read or watched in TV serials based on Chanakya's life. Thanks for sharing, may be it will help other readers to know more about Chanakya but there is absolutely nothing new in this for me.

      His teachings in governance and politics or basic economics are already in use wherever they are relevant, the topic of my blog post is not at all concerned about these things, if you want to argue about that then this is not the place find relevant post who deals with this topic, it's very simple.

      This post is ONLY about his views about WOMEN and how I think that they are not very different than any other male chauvinist (may be because of social conditions of that time). I am pretty sure that you missed whole point of the post but at the same time feel sad for you that in spite of being women you don't even seem to know the immense potential and capabilities women have and that too after there are so many examples around to prove this. I hope one day you discover the true potential within yourself and then comeback and look at many statements which demean women and then decide whether they are true or not until then all the very best and keep on trying.

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    5. Hi Vinay sir... I have been seeing the comment since a long time but now I do think I should comment .. Fortunately or unfortunately I am also a scientist and earlier worked as a professor in ISC Bangalore but I am just mentioning it as you have mentioned in your previous post.. so as far as my thinking and knowledge is concerned then I would say there is no point to relate science in this topic but yes I would say we all professors were having some discussion long time back about chankya only so this topic came we discussed a lot and came to the conclusion that Chankya was not only the best teacher in INDIA but in whole world and what a wonderful knowledge he was having in rasayanshastra also.. and now a days we all scientist are just confirming now whatever he has already said in his books ... and as far as women are concerned then I would say as a woman he was not only correct but his views were amazing for most of the women but yes some exception are there as mentioned by people in earlier post people . so the moral of the post is he is the genius in all the aspect including views on women .. I am also a woman and can say he was correct and has given lots of suggestion also to make the women better... so my suggestion to you please get some more knowledge about him and research what he said then you will also be a fan of him without any question back in your mind.. thanks

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    6. Thanks a lot Pooja for sharing your views, great to know that you are a scientist at the same time sad to say that you learned science academically but not tried to understand it completely, getting a degree in science is very easy many people do it but not many catch the spirit of science any way thats not the point of discussion here.

      I don't know on what basis you all are claiming that Chanakya was best teacher from India, a country which produced many, many excellent teachers starting right from Ashtavakra to Vyas, Sandipani, Vashishta, etc. the list is too long even to mention in comment, I hope that when you all are giving me advise of going back and studying more, you all have done your homework before claiming that Chanakya is the best (not one of the best) teacher..kindly elaborate on this statement with some evidence, as a scientist I think you know the importance of data and proof which one needs to produce to support their own statement and hypothesis.

      And as far as his views about women are concerned I already said those views must have based on his own interaction with limited women in his life, also only women from the kingdom where he lived, so first of all it can not be generalized, simple scientific fact as he didn't study the large sample size, there are many scientific articles about men and women behavioral pattern published in many journals, please go and read them and then let me know how many of them cite Chanakya on women character and behaviour, I would really appreciate it and as a scientist it should not be a difficult task for you.

      I have seen symptoms and presence of Stockholm syndrome many times in my life, many women in my neighborhood were ideal subject of Chanakya's research or description, they totally behaved according to his description but NOT because they were WOMEN but because of their social and economic situation. When I see, meet and talk with women from other parts of the world, or even in India I came to know that independent, talented, successful or selfless women is not an EXCEPTION but as COMMON as men of similar qualities. I am sure you all never witnessed this or even if saw never realized this, but I am sure eventually you will.

      Frankly speaking I have not seen a person in my life who is genius in all aspects of life, I saw or read about many geniuses in many fields but all were humans and had same qualities like other humans, but that didn't reduce my respect for them.

      I am amazed that how a bunch of scientist during their casual discussion decide who is best teacher in WORLD? How scientific it is? :)

      I happen to be a chemist and I have spent my entire post school life in studying and doing research in Chemistry (Rasayanshastra), and for your information I have not come across a single...OK a single paper which refereed to Chanakya's original works in International journals. He might have been very knowledgeable in various fields no one is denying that, I wrote only about his views about women and I have seen ample evidence with my own eyes, researched on this topic to say confidently that on this one he was WRONG and he messed it up, but this doesn't take away any credit from him about his other work or doesn't make him any of less genius to me. Many be according to you one either needs to accept everything what a genius says or reject them (otherwise it's an insult of that person) but I don't think that way. Thanks a lot again for your comment and taking part in this discussion.

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    7. and yes, please don't call me Sir, just Vinay is fine, thanks.

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  18. Hi Omprakash...

    I have just seen your post .. I like your post and also it seems you also respect chankya a lot like me..... and you are really a kind person because you know the importance of chankya's statement.. I like chankya very much and also chankya is the pride of our india and he was the first teacher who saved india without any battle from sinkander ....so his thoughts' levels are very much high than a normal person..I wish everyone could understand his valuable thoughts

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  19. When I was a kid then I was also thinking why chankya has said these statement to women but now I completely not only agreed but I want to touch his feet but unfortunately he is no more.. I can not stop thanking him as he has given a right direction to women and he is very very straight forward and honest in speaking about women .. I love chankya as leader,Guru,Teacher and Pioneer...

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    1. Hi Pooja.thanks a lot for sharing your views...... I really thankful to you ...because the way you expressed your thoughts is excellent that's why you are at this level... it is very difficult to accept the truth but you have accepted it .. and we want such pioneer like chankya for our new generation also but looking very difficult..I am out of INDIA but here also I found each and every person who accept the thought of chankya about women witout even a single exception.. so from my point of view also we should follow the path of chankya and can try to become like him at least 1%.. my pranam to chankya..

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    2. Thanks again Pooja for continuing the discussion, frankly as a kid I never thought Chanakya was wrong as I saw exactly same things happening around me as he wrote, women also behaving in more or less similar pattern as he mentioned in his work, but things changed drastically when I grew up, expanded my horizon by reading more and more books by different great authors from India and all over the world. I saw and met many great women and when I left India then again I saw altogether different world where women were doing all work which ONLY men were supposed to do, succeeding in every field, and this was not exception quite a normal thing.

      Can you kindly list me just few directions which Chanakya gave to women to make them better, I am sure it will help all readers and I am sure they all will appreciate it. Listing qualities or shortcomings of few people is easy, let me know the solutions offered by him which you think are still appropriate for all women in today's world, I am curious.

      Glad that you love him as a leader, teacher and pioneer, no doubt he deserves that. Thanks again.

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    3. [[I am out of INDIA but here also I found each and every person who accept the thought of chankya about women witout even a single exception]]

      Abhi, I am also living outside India for last 10 years or so, I dont know which part of world you are living but the place where I am living (USA) not many common people here even know about Chanakya, and there are many (read it again MANY) who don't agree with his views about women and think that they were limited for that time or for that type of social settings (in which he lived) or part of his strategy to keep his students focused on politics and governance.

      SO when you make some statement like this, kindly provide some data (which place you are talking about, how many people you talked with, etc.) just saying something like this for the sake of saying is very easy and doesn't carry any value (I am sure Pooja will agree with me on this as she is also a scientist). I am waiting for more details about this very interesting statement by you, thanks a lot.

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    4. i really appreciate that this lady (POOJA JAIN) has the guts to accept things .....we meet very few of such people in INDIA who r not in "APPEASEMENT MODE"......if we cant criticize we cant evolve.

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    5. Thanks Shashank for your comment...and I totally understand why you appreciate Pooja's comment, I am sure not only Pooja but any woman who accepts that their gender is in any way inferior to men, men like you would love that, not a surprise for me.

      You are dam right, if we can't criticize then we can't evolve...and please go through all comments (including yours) to check who is taking criticism in right spirit and who is treating it as an attack...thanks.

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  20. Hi Vinay... why are you so sad about pooja.. for kind your information chankya is best teacher is not said by us right ....it is written by romans and if you don't believe go and search in roamna's directory.. and why are you saying that in chemistry chankya doesn't know any thing for kind you information.. he knows about 87 poisons medicine and it is again present in roman's diary so unfortunately you didn't get the chance to read it.. my dear Ayurveda is 2000 year old science you might know and our Acharya developed this... and I am very sad to say you always says before thinking like you said bad comments about pooja .. I am living in Singapore and my dear who doesn't know chankya it is their bad luck... I didn't meet even a single person here who didn't know chankya.. and please listen carefully in Maths.. Aryabhatt considered as a father .. for rasayanshastra Nagargun but not much famous and Arthshatra Chankya... so my dear if you think only you are correct and others are only taking degree then boss you should have been father of all the scientist... and why you are saying any other can't make their opinion like you .....All other scientist are might not be far intelligent like you and they all might be taking degree only but for me they are also very intelligent and they must have said some logical points.. So I can't comment on that and for your purpose I am informing you I am also a scientist and had taken so many seminars in physics ... but I am not thinking I am only intelligent, I give the chance to others to evaluate me.. and as far as chankya is concerned then make sure you what are you saying and Rupali shared the wonderful video to you , If you have gone through via those links then I think you should have taken the lesson rather than arguing everyone..

    Hi All, who believe chankya is best teacher .. please send the all Veda's list to Vinay so that he can go through that because I missed those information because it was in my hardisk which is not at present with me ...

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    1. Hi Abhi, nice questions..I am sad for her because in spite of being women she doesn't believe in tremendous potential and talent her species have, in spite of being scientist she didn't put any scientific evidence for her statements, thats all, and I think I wrote that in my comment but I think as usual you didnt read it, any way thats not the point of discussion here.

      Again where did I say Chanakya didn't know "anything" about chemistry? DID I? Please show me where I wrote it? or you derived 'your own' conclusion based on what I wrote? What I wrote is if you call anyone genius in 'all fields' then his/her work should be pioneering in 'all fields' but I din't find Chanakya in Chemistry, not even in books studied in Indian schools, did you find any references in chemistry books of Indian schools? He is definitely there in history, politics, economics and governance but not in other fields, so go and check, I didn't claim that he is genius in 'all fields'

      Please list what 'bad comments' I posted about Pooja, either I will withdraw them if you prove that they are 'BAD'...there is something called 'CRITICISM' and I think you don't know what it is, I never felt that anyone said any 'BAD' things about me here as everyone has their own style and language they use during criticism, it depends on their nature, upbringing and social environment so if you in debate or public platform then learn to deal with it or dont jump there...if you want to jump in water then dont complain for getting wet it's bound to happen.

      The name you listed all are known to many people and what are you trying to say here? This post is not about India's contribution to science or who invented what, read the title of the post and please stick to the topic.

      Produce the logic behind the logical points, hollow statements dont carry any value, you can keep on making claims and so can I, show the logic, produce the research and prove the statement, it's very simple.

      You don't have to be a scientist to comment about these issues, science is a way of thinking not just a subject. I have seen many people with doctorates in science subjects with no clue how what science really is and many people without any background in science thinking in very scientific manure. SO whatever may be our qualification it matters only for knowledge for that particular subject, it doesnt reflect our intelligence, I hope you know this.

      I read all comments very carefully and I already wrote (if you haven't read it) that there is nothing new for me in those videos.

      Read the post...man I dont know how many times I have to say this...the post is not about 'Chanakya- the teacher'...get over it...get real and stick to the topic. Thanks..

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  21. Vinay,

    One day I got the chance to talk old president Abdul Kalam Sahab and he also agreed that Chankya is best teacher forever so it is very easy for you to interact with Abdul Kalam Sahab so any time you can have a discussion with him.. and he might know me so while discussion you can say I meet him in IIT delhi on teachers day.. ok .. So I don't know your views about kalam sahib but I discussed with him about chankya's views about women and he was very specific on that and he said whatever he said I also agree and he only provide me the way to get more information about Nagarjuna.. So any time you can go and check with kalam sahb and one more scientist Shiv Prasad kosta sir he is also genius for me might be not for you but he also said .. he never seen teacher like chankya..

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    1. Abhi,
      Great to know that you got to interact with Mr. Kalam, he is a great scientist and very inspirational personality. So you claim that he agreed with you about Chanakya's view about women, right? Did he say that on any public platform? Any of his speeches? Any books or articles? If yes, then please give me the link, I am interested in it and after reading I will definitely get into touch with him and discuss why he thinks those views are right, I assure you that I will put all that correspondence on record right here on blog so that everyone has chance to read it. Show me where Mr. Kalam said that "Whatever Chanakya said about women, everything is right and relevant" or please stop giving some irrelevant examples.

      And for me it doesn't matter which scientist said what and agreed to what, they have their own way of thinking and I have my own, if I see anything wrong demeaning about women, I will argue about that, I will question it doesn't matter who said it. That's how I was trained about scientist I don't know about you. And please don't talk about 'teacher Chanakya' now it sounds me very funny..that's not at all point of discussion here, it's like if I am talking about Tendulkar's captaincy skills and other person keep on mentioning again and again about his batting and how great he is as a batsman...sounds very funny and off the track as that's not the point of discussion. Thanks.

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  22. vinay.. please be honest first right, if you say some thing ...first of all what is the meaning taking degree is very easy?????

    this very bad comment boss... and one more thing read your own post carefully the hidden meaning will come to you easily correct

    and as far as pooja is concerned then she was just saying chankya's views are correct that's it .. is she said that women don't have capability or power????? and I also said chankya's views are correct only and all are only saying to you analyse first then comment.. we all are not your enemy dear but want you to know and study more about chankya,.. then only you will come to know what he said about women ok ... blindly don't say anything ok .. and by d way how can you say everyone has hollow comments???

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    1. Abhi...
      Taking degree is very easy compared to using that information collected during the process of acquiring that degree in real life. Learning science as a subject is easy compares to bring scientific way to thinking in real life...that's what I meant, am I clear now? and you were talking about hidden meaning..:) and you are free to decide whether this comment is good or bad, it's your choice and your right and I respect that.

      But thanks a lot that you talked about 'HIDDEN' meaning, so you read whatever you want from my comments and call it as a 'hidden meaning', right? No problem, you have full rights to do that, but when I did the same thing by interpreting Pooja's comment that Chanakya was right when he said some demeaning things about women then I am WRONG??

      WOW..do you even see some double standards here? I am sure not, but thats OK, nothing new in it. So you advise me to look at 'hidden meaning' in my comments and I am advising to look for same in other comments, be consistent. And for your kind information when you say that someone's statements are right then you agree and also believe those statement...when I say that I think 'Whatever Hitler said was right' then I also subscribe to his ridiculous views against Jews...thats how I understand it, and now please don't come back complaining that I am comparing Hitler with Chanakya..:)

      I analyzed and then only I wrote the post, now you or any one who believes that they are correct please analyze and explain to me what following statements mean, because for me they are wrong and can not be taken as general statements about women,

      One should not place trust in rivers, animals with horns, armed ones, women or in ruling families.

      Women are fickle minded. He also says 'Only women could speak falsehood'

      Untruthfulness, rashness, guile, stupidity, avarice, uncleanliness and cruelty are women's seven natural flaws.

      Fire, water, women, fool, snake and the royal family, beware of all these, they can prove fatal.

      Courtesy should be learned from princes, the art of conversation from pundits, lying from gamblers and deceitful ways from women.

      The list is not that long and the only request is please stick to the point, thanks.

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  23. Vinay.. Now I can understand you only want the argument how you can say I am off the track .. first see your comment first .. you wrote you don't believe he is even a good teacher so my point is.. I just want to make you aware why people want you to do more study about chankya.. because the person who doesn't have the basic knowledge about chankya so how he can make any comment about his statements.. so my point is still there first read and study then you need not to write any post against chankya's thought ,I believe..

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    1. Abhi, Please show me that line where I said that Chanakya was a bad teacher or I don't believe he was a good teacher, copy and post it, I will be more than happy to delete that line, just show me where it is? and please don't say that it was hidden meaning, just show me that line, rather I believe he was a excellent teacher, so show me that line when I said it and surely I will delete it. Again, the post is not about Chanakya the teacher, the post is not about Chanakya the teacher, the post is not about Chanakya the teacher..OK got it or I should repeat again..

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  24. Vinay Sir... Surprisingly you don't know about Shiv Prasad kosta.. really this is funny he is one of the famous personality in ISRO ... and I know my capability you neither need to judge me nor need to inform me about women, I know more than you.. for kind your information shiv Prasad kosta sir is the deputy director of aryabhatta pratham satellite project and SENIOR OF DR. KALAM ... and you don't know about the example and saying others examples are irrelevant funny haan.. so what I observed is whatever you say, is relevant for you and others comment are not and vinay sir .. abhi told you check with kalam sahib so go and check it .... okay now you tell me what you know about " we should not believe river " chankya said correct ... tell me which book you refer for that and what is the actual meaning of that.. and stop talking nonsense that others examples are irrelevant.. abhi was just saying that kind of big people also accept chankya's thought because they did some study on it.. its your foolishness that you are commenting without study..

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    1. Thanks Pooja, so again few more names and claim that they believe whatever Chanakya said about women, but no reference, no link to prove that, doesn't mean anything to me. I will definitely discuss with Mr. Kalam or whoever if I come across them.

      As a scientist I am not trained to see who said it, I am only trained to look at the statement and judge it's value based on it's content not based on who said it, I made this thing clear many times and if you people didn't get it then it's your problem. Don't tell me who said what..talk about things related with topic, and argue based on those points not based on who said what, there are many big people who talk absolute rubbish, get over celebrity hangover and then talk, so I hope I don't get any more of this great person said this shit so believe in that..

      Give examples relevant to this topic, other things which are not relevant to topic doesn't matter as far as thins discussion is concerned. I refer to the translations of Chanakya's works and I clearly mentioned the statements in my post and in my previous comments, if you think those statements which I quoted are wrong or mistranslated then produce the correct translation and I will correct them. I have reproduced the statements which I feel are wrong or inappropriate so prove me wrong (or those statements right) or just dont keep on repeating same things again and again. Thanks

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  25. ok your topic is .. whatever chankya said is wrong for women.. I am saying it is 100% correct if you don't believe then its your problem and when you use shit word then let me remind you the statement which one person already said to you in the post , I was previously thinking he has misbehaved you but he was the right person for you and whatever he said ( you are just like a dog barking at sun) only because of your baseless comment ..and only that kind of person can make you understand you really comes under that category .. don't you really feel shame to talk about chankya that he has said ridiculous about women .. we all are tired keep on saying you should study study study but your really a dirty and mindless person and see ur post its a stupid post that's y everyone saying to you that u should work hard in analysing the big people character.. so sad..















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    1. does it matter what I think about Chanakya or what you think about him? Talk about the topic, I have reproduced the statements talk about them, who I am or what my level is not important here, OK, and yes I know that Shit is a not very good word but I couldn't find any better word for such statements. For me there are no BIG people or SMALL people, there are people and all are same, their statements matter to me and I cane about that not about their name or anything else.

      I dont feel any shame to call spade a spade, if it was not clear from my post then at least get it now. Talk about the topic, and only baout the topic not about me or anyone else.

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  26. Pooja. you are showing a mirror to a blind person he has gone through a very good links but still there.. don't put more effort in making him understand..

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  27. dear pooja abhi.. you people are very intelligent yar .. now I find the right evaluator.. please send me the link from which I can enhance my knowledge. I am one of the biggest fan of chankya.. what a man he was.. I really love him , I wish I could also touch his feet.. whatever he said about women is really correct I found one professor who is in delhi sri ram college .. he will provide me some books in which every explanation is there .. I will share those wonderful thoughts of chankya abt women to you people..

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  28. Thank you all (specially Abhi, Preeti, Pooja, Om Prakash and Rupali) for participating in this stimulating discussion and sharing your views. It was great discussion not strictly up to the point of the post but nevertheless I enjoyed the experience. You all helped to remind me once again how uphill is my battle to fight against strong prejudice against women in our society. I wish all the very best to all of you in your life. Thanks

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  29. Hi Vinay,
    Why are you thinking that we are opposite you dear..actually what happened, you said something against the statement of very genius person and fortunately or unfortunately he has said everything correct only.. and what you want to show the society is ..to do respect women ,,and these statement are incorrect okay anything else you want to say .. I belive No.. we also want the same but may I take the chance not to teach you buddy just want to explain you why fire has been compared with women it has enough power and can destroy the whole world there is another form of fire which is very useful for life and can give life to so many person because of this natural quality we all worship fire.. likewise the natural flaws and qualities are in women .. he doesn't mean that women are bad but he said these are the natural flaws in women In hindi nasargic durgun.. so he is right man .. and first we have to understand that if we dominate the people from our point so it will not work but we have to convince the people which can only be possible when your statement has some base and the most important thing truth.. which is 100% present in chankya's statement consequently almost everyone regardless women or men not only like his thoughts but accepted as a practical phenomena

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    1. Thanks again Abhi, I am not saying you or anyone else are opposing me, but I am opposing the idea which stereotypes women in particular mold. What you call as natural defects in women are personality traits found in both genders and they mostly depend on socioeconomic situation of society not gender of person, there is lot of research done in this area and no research attributes these flaws exclusively to women. If you find any reliable research data which does so then please share that with me I will be interested in reading it.

      The post is not about whether Chanakya was a genius or not, it is exclusively about his views and comments about women in general and I very clearly explained why I am against those views and why I think they are very limited and biased, no one even bothered to present any reliable reference to me to demonstrate why I should not think like that. I don't believe that women are like fire, they are as good or bad like men, not superior or inferior but equal.

      You think he was right, it's your choice based on your observation and you have full right to express your agreement with his views about women but my observation doesn't agree with his and I think I also have right to express my disagreement, it's as simple as this, nothing more, nothing less. Thanks

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  30. vinay... which research you are talking about can u share with us. Simple and sweet expectation from you just share it

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    1. below are just few links...hope it helps..glad to know that you are interested in data..I expect few from your side as well as you know the rule to reproduce the data should not be one sided...

      http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2565789?uid=3739576&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101929359171

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394507/Women-selfish-men-likely-bad-mouth-friends-says-study.html

      search more I am sure you will find more articles like this, thanks and happy reading.

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  31. and tulsidas also said in ramcharitmanas dhol gawar shoodra pashu naari sakal tadna ke adhikari...you know here also he said nasrgic gun.. he was not saying women are bad .. he also said women are good only in his some Doha..

    and in ramayan also it is writtem prabhu shiv said to parvati .. mahilaye swabhav se hi moorkh pravatti ki hoti hain... so why prabhu shiv said this as mata parvati went to ram in the form sita to give the exam to ram to judge him whether he can recognize her or not.. but prabhu ram said to parvati " maate aap yaha kaise" and once she back to kailash parvat then prabhu shiv said to parvati these statement.. so it is natural in women .. now what you say about our granth????

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    1. do you know authors of all the texts from which you are quoting? They all are MEN, and they can write whatever they think is right according to them (or based on social situation that time or their personal experience) but thats not research and one can not decide based on who said what, I think I made this point clear many times before, I know all these quotes which you shared here, there are many more like these by many eminent people...so??

      Do you mean stupidity is natural in women based on our granths?? really?? These mythological stories are not research data, they all reflect mindset of people of that time, try publishing something based on what Ram or Shiv said in any research journal and let me know how creditable editors or referees of those journals find these statements.

      The discussion is about women and their capabilities, there are many things said about them some right, some wrong, the statements you are reproducing have no value in today's world, absolute no value, may be they are good just for entertainment...

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    2. Mr. Vinay,I am not indian but know much about chankya ,
      On last Monday suddenly went through your blog but I am sorry to say you , You are wrong since beginning and Abhi's thoughts are not only correct but have strong base , If you say some people even don't know about chankya then they should work on their GK . As I know most of the people not only know about him but they are following him and his followers are in all over the world.
      Now come to the point ,,whatever Abhi wrote you don't know Author really???? so its questionable that you are an indian. Tulsidas and Valmiki are the author ok man.. and I am also a sexologist and can share you my research.. But the links you share its present in the net without any purity if you want I can also share such type of links which have different research results ok. but as far as women is concerned then we all doctors have found IQ of men are 5 point better than women without even a single exception.And the quality, chankya said about women is natural(read properly natural).. I am doctor so I believe at least you should not be having any problem in accepting my research. it is already displayed in discovery channel human Body you can have look on research result..

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    3. Thanks a lot Andrew for jumping in discussion and sharing your experience, first let me ask do you know about Jyotiba Phule or Maharshi Dhondo Keshav Karve? If yes then great..if no, then also it's OK, I am sure there are many people in this world who don't know anything about them or their pioneering work in the field on improving situation of women in Indian society but I won't say that their GK is poor or they should work on improving their GK, they just dont feel the need to know about these people...so like you I can not comment about other people and paint them in single brush...

      Did I say that I dont know the authors of the lines which Abhi wrote?? Did I?? can you please go back and read it again...ohh man...I know all those authors very well and have their books in my personal collection, I just said they are all MEN...go and read the comment properly...and knowing them or not knowing them has nothing to do with my being Indian..I know what it means to be an Indian and don't need any approval from anybody to confirm that, and thanks for spelling their names for me...check Abhi's comment name of 'Tulsidas' he already mentioned....

      Can you share the pioneering research paper which you "all doctors" published your findings about "IQ of men are 5 point better than women without even a single exception" (just post the link of the journal where it was published), it will be of great help and also help to continue the discussion.

      Natural...wow...I read again Natural...do you know the meaning of natural? If not then go and check...and I have seen many successful women who dont have these 'natural' qualities...so what about them?

      Good to know that you are a doctor, then just share us your research papers, I would be very happy to read them, personal statements don't matter...I am a chemist that too a PhD chemist and if I say I have discovered a technique which can turn water into petrol and iron into pure gold would you believe it just because I am doctorate in chemistry or you would like to see some data and evidence to support my claim? So show me the scientific data, not just some random claims made on some TV show. I am not interested in personal opinions, we all can have them and believe in whatever principals we want but that's not the point here...again thanks for your comment.

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  32. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1274952/Men-ARE-brainy-women-says-scientist-Professor-Richard-Lynn.html

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    1. Thanks a lot Andrew for sharing the link...really superb article...but where is the data?? In my comment along with the newspaper article I provided the link for one 'research paper' published in international research journal, where is the data here? or I missed something/

      Whatever that lady is saying same thins was said by one of former Harvard president, do you know the result? I am sure you know it, why he has to resign if his statements were scientifically true and absolutely indisputable? Do you think anyone has to resign for saying that earth is not flat and whatever Bible said about it was wrong? So why after making such a scientifically accurate statement??

      And as far as statistics are concerned they are pure numbers and sometimes dont predict the reality. Only one Indian who worked in India, did his all research in India, Sir. C. V. Raman got Nobel price in the field of science in more than 100 years or so, so does that mean all scientists working in India are dumb? they are inferior to American or European scientists? Right?? Stats tell this..I can produce many stats like this which can help us to draw some more outrageous conclusions...but this link even doesnt give the numbers..and please have a look at the comments section and then you will realize how many people are there who dispute these findings...get real, produce something concrete..thanks..

      Delete
  33. mythology .. what do u understand from this word ???? and tell me one thing which science theory says about soul and god tell me... in rameshwaram there are some stones which are still above the sea water .. so if you believe or not but its a truth and every scientist are still unable to know the reason behind it ,,so man this is the problem of india ... you are slave by yourself.. you people always don't respect to their own leader .. hahahaha.. and man I can't send the theory part of our research in public site its confidential , you come to our place we will show you , if you want we can share our address to you .. the name you said they are not a much as famous like Chankya so stop giving such irrelative examples , If you don't know capital of India then its your gk problem but if you don't know any village name then its okay.. again see what are you saying ??? against whom??? you can't hide sun via your cloud man..I am from london but still didn't find such a wonderful and genius person who said such a practice lines in my country.. come to oxford unv you will find many professors who worship Chankya..

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    1. The word mythology is self explanatory...see Wikipedia if you want an explanation what it means. Science theories don't deal with myths but facts and it's entirely based on research and evidence, this change everyday, it's very vast and I cannot describe what science is and means because of lack of time here but I am sure you are capable enough to find it out on your own.

      Stones above sea water? what a big deal? I have seen many islands so?? Do you mean "stones denser than water still floating without any support in sea water"?? Please share the evidence, just making statements is very easy..

      I dont have to believe anything to make it truth, I know that truth is truth..so? it doesn't need data to support it? really? great...

      I know what are the problems of India, I have spent my entire life there, I am glad that you care and know about India so much but I definitely don't need any advise about myself from you, this post is not about me and I will appreciate if both of us refrain from making any personal comments as this is not the place to do that, I hope you are intelligent enough to understand this.

      In my culture and teaching raising questions or objections doesn't account for disrespect, may be it is in yours but I am not from that culture so keep your definition of respect to yourself, I definitely don't need that.

      Research is confidential?? so you guys are not planning to publish such a groundbreaking research?? I can wait..let me know when you make these findings public and publish, I will be more than happy to read the research paper.

      So you want famous names...they are not famous for you but they are very famous in India and to any person who is working in field of women suppression or social condition of women in India, for you they are irrelative but not for me and not for millions of people in India, GK doesn't depend on famous or not famous (as this can change based on region and part of world)..I hope you got my point here...

      I don't care against whom..I care about the statement not who made it for me that is not important. So sad to know that your country can not produce genius like Chanakya, I am really proud of him but that doesn't mean I look down at other countries...they must have their heroes..I dont have to go to Oxford to see people worshiping Chanakya I have seen enough of them in my own country and by the way post is NOT about Chanakya or his personality (if you didn't get this), its exclusively about his views about women..thanks..:)

      Delete
    2. what do you mean making the statement is very easy? You go and see those stones... what proof u want .. you can see via ur eyes only ..and if you don't know about these stones then again its a question mark for you .. and the link you have sent is base less and lots of news in news paper are fake only and how I can believe on such a stupid link..without any strong research theory .. and again I am saying 2 you.. if you want to come oxford then I will show you all my research with evidence also..that research clearly says women are having each quality said by chankya but in science term it is demonstrated as different way...and the name you suggested in ur prev post are no where stand in front of chankya. its ur stupidity that u r comparing them with chankya..nither they are famous in UK nor in INDIA. but ya some they can belong to very little bit famous family stuucture

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    3. Master stroke....brilliant...did I compare those people with Chanakya? or that's what "you" thought I am doing? Can you point to the single sentence in my comment which shows I compared them with Chanakya? I know I won't get any answers for any of these questions but any way I ask.

      Making statements is easy..that's what I meant...I think it's very simple to understand...stupid link? Which link is stupid?? You quoted on news article, that was not stupid right? I shared one research paper (if you know what it means) not just one news, check it carefully.

      hahaha...in science term demonstrated different way....:) brilliant...what is the value of the names which I suggested I know very well, they don't have to stand in front of any name as they all have their own place in glorious history of India, so don't worry whether you like it or not they will be there and I have no habit of comparing two people and decide who is more famous and then associate with them..:)

      Last few lines from your comment are very comical and all they make me is to laugh...good laugh..thanks for that.

      Delete
  34. All we see here is just statements and quotes no real data or analysis, no research papers (I hope they don't think news paper article is an research paper), or impartial data, nothing substantial...most of questions I asked in my comments are still not answered, even no one produced the evidence for things which they accuse me for (like comparing Chanakya with some other personalities, I don't consider him a good teacher or I think he was not scholar and genius, etc.) and this is nothing new for me, all people who are just interested in pushing or forcing their own views on others behave in this way, they just want you to accept whatever you say without any argument because that's what they did and want you to follow the same path...interesting...very interesting..

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  35. ha ha ha.. I am laughing on you .. who cares for you whether you consider him as a good teacher or not .. He is world famous Man and I am not an Indian but know he is the father of economics and the first leader also maker of "Akhand Bharat" and keep your ideas with you ... what you have done for your country tell me???. The subject you have chosen is bull shit as you bloody don't know about Chankya and started barking .. you are just like a pig if we fight with you then you will enjoy but we will be dirty.. but you opened your bloody mouth against a person who gave bread to your grand Father also .. You know UK ruled india because of the people like you.. Again sorry man whatever I said to you but its a truth .. you lost you patience and read carefully my blog I didn't say that every link is correct even I was saying there are lots of link like you shared man.. and why I have written in this blog as I am also the part of 99% of the person who believe Chankya is best and his thoughts are also correct..And don't ever think you are logical and know even a ABCD of science , I read your earlier post also in which you don't the person belongs to your field also.. and women have the same nature which chankya said . your approval is not required.. and any ways I cant compare your hehehe mentioned hero to Chankya.. you are showing lamp to Sun.. hahaha..

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    1. hehe...I lost my patience?? so funny, read the comments and if you are sensible check who is barking at who...:) who is calling names..haha..

      I know that who cares whether I consider him a great teacher or not (in fact I do consider him great teacher but it's of no value to tell people like you)..its true and by the way do you think people care what you think about him? :)

      And for the matter of fact person don't have to be a Indian to know that he is considered as father of economics...you just need to know about field of economics..I know that you claim to know lot about India but let me tell you that there are millions of Indians who dont know anything about economics or whether Chanakya is father of economics or not but still they are very much Indian..:)

      Ohh...so What I have done for my country? wow..big question..and by the way who are you to ask this question? In what capacity you are asking this question? Do you think you will answer to these type of questions from any stranger? and is it related with topic which we are discussion here? I dont expect answers to any of these but look into mirror yourself first before showing it to others..

      [[The subject you have chosen is bull shit as you bloody don't know about Chankya and started barking .. you are just like a pig if we fight with you then you will enjoy but we will be dirty.. but you opened your bloody mouth against a person who gave bread to your grand Father also]]

      were you talking about loosing patience?? :) Dont worry it can happen, and very often frustration forces person to do so.
      Dont worry if I am pig, cow, lion or human, stick to the point and discuss about the issue which we are talking about, who I am is not the issue here. So you think he gave bread and butter to my grand father...right..no man he gave bread and butter to your grand father also...so I can understand your compulsion to show your loyalty to him: )
      My ancestors (including Chanakya) earned their own bread and butter no one gave it to them..and I know this better than you, you worry about your ancestors I know my history very well and by the way to remind you this is not the subject of topic.

      So you say there are lots of links like I shared and still claim that 99% people agree to such views about women, really? so you believe in statistics (but I have not seen any data so far) only when it agrees to your view or you make your own :) You didn't share any link apart from that news article, neither answered any questions which I asked in my comments nor produced any data...

      [[And don't ever think you are logical and know even a ABCD of science]]

      I have explained everything in detail in my post as well as in my comments and I don't need certificate from 'anybody' to know who I am, I am sure you don't need any certificate from me about your knowledge of science so do I, so stop commenting on others abilities and stick to the point.

      [[I read your earlier post also in which you don't the person belongs to your field also]]

      What does this mean?? can you explain?? doesn't make any sense to me..take your time to write the reply don't rush..I am in no hurry and not running anywhere..OK..relax.

      Did I say my approval is required? No, neither mine nor yours so just chill...I am not here to give approvals to anybody (may be you are)..thats not my job and intention..and don't compare anyone with anybody its not good habit :)

      And for your information I am not showing lamp to sun..I know people like you get this impression..I just showed a dark spot on sun, for me that doesn't reduce the importance and greatness of sun but for people like you it's a BIG SHOCK and your comments clearly show that..but don't worry sun is not going anywhere so just chill...and be happy.

      Delete
  36. Correct Andrew

    I am from Philippines and have been travelling all over the world since last 15 years . I heard about chankya a lot in each and every country but in Mexico also people know about chankya but less than other countries. I said wow once I read his quotes , what a man he was like a god , in his statements no flaws .. You all will be surprised that in all over the world female fans are more the male fans of chankya, Particularly this topic accepted by everywhere even women loves that quotes despite commented on them. So he is genius only..

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    1. This is great..thanks a lot Joseph for your valuable input, you all are so helpful to me, I really appreciate that. This all helps me to see how deep rooted is the prejudice against women and how it is spread all over the world, not specific to particular culture or country or society. I sincerely thank you guys for showing it to me because it is practically impossible for me to travel all these places personally and experience all this your comments are great help. There is nothing new in what you wrote Joseph, I already know about his popularity (from my studies and readings) but good to know from person who personally experienced it, Thanks a lot.

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  37. i don't knw why you so senior people are misguided? i am very young to u.
    Chanakya's thoughts about women were related to politics, he was very careful about 'women as Wish kanyas in Politics'.
    You can take examples like "Nehru, Gandhi, Hitler" & current example of Laxman Mane etc etc. all these bog names were indulged in bad activities with Women. These people ruined their own name because of some wrong relationships with Women.
    Chankya pointed out this side of Women.
    fyi Chanakya studied in Takshashila (the best university of that time)where women were dominant.
    So let us be clear before talking anything negative about great people in Ancient Bharat.

    vande mataram...

    naik.harshal@gmail.com

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    1. Thanks Harshal for your comments, intelligence doesn't depend on your age so don't worry whether you are younger or older than people who are commenting, you thoughts count not age.

      As I said if Chanakya is commenting about certain women which he knew or advising certain class of people (like politicians or kings) to be aware of their sexual desires and hence he made these comments then one can understand because then there is certain motive and bias in these comments but just go through the comment section and you will see that most people don't think that way. They believe that these comments describe women in general and according to me this is wrong.

      I don't find anything wrong happening in political or personal life of people you mentioned in your comment because of women, can you please elaborate? What do you mean by bad activities with women? Sexual activities? or did they raped any women (I am not aware of any such crime by any of these people, except Laxman Mane, I don't know who is he)? Hitler's name was not all all ruined because of his relationship with any women, there are other very strong reasons for that if you study history you will know about them. Nehru and Gandhi are still very much respected by people who like them and people who hate them will hate them any way no matter what they did.

      Can you show where I talk anything negative about Chanakya, criticism or questioning anyone doesn't mean talking negative, these are positive things to move forward and I hope you understand this. Thanks again.

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  38. Vinay, you're probably aware already, but just thought I'd chip in because you're too nice or are just practising your communication.. but all these people (Abhi, Preeti, Pooja, Andrew, Joseph, etc.) with Blogger profiles appear to be the same person with nothing else to do but harrass you as a mindless game (what one would call an internet troll). Just looking at the writing style, choice of words, abusive language and spelling of "chankya" kind of gives it away. I think of going back to India to contribute to society, and like you said, these people/views are constant reminders of the uphill battle we'd have to face. Sadly such people exist, but it's good practice I suppose.

    Thanks for the great article! I was reading Chanakya Niti (in Hindi) for the first time and the demeaning words towards women made me wonder if the translations meant something else. A quick google search landed me here and got it cleared. Must be something of the time, or as you say, to do with his personal limited experience with women.

    Thanks!

    Vaibhav

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    1. Thanks a lot Vaibhav for your comment and support, I really appreciate it. Our culture always encouraged questioning and healthy debate and because of this only we have such a vast amount of literature otherwise one book of some fixed number of commandments should have been enough but our ancestors didn't do that. Our society departed from these practices and then many bad elements creep in and we see their effect today.

      I am glad that you are reading Chanakya, his writings are great and as you did, whenever you get doubt just test it and confirm it, take whatever is good and relevant for you leave the rest. Nothing wrong in healthy criticism that's how we help each other to grow.

      Prejudice against women or even against certain class of people (call it race, caste or anything else) is very only and strong. People like you should speak up and express their opinion wherever they see such things happening, your voice is very important. I salute to your desire of doing something for society back home, we should contribute positively to every society. Thanks again.

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  39. Vaibhav on what basis you are including my name, can you explain, I was the person who said other for not using abusing language , better first think before saying any thing. In my post I already said Vinay is just like my brother and I have expressed my thinking and its very much right according to me , The person like you can say any thing to any one. what's the problem If such type of percentage of women are there ? Some people don't accept it doesn't mean Chanakya is not right. I am not here to abuse any one but its my duty to provide right direction to the people . For your kind information I am in the touch of Vinay almost since last 2 years so boss think twice before blaming someone.

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    1. Hi Abhi,

      Apologies for bringing your name in the same group as others. I wasn't aware of the long relationship you've had. But I am sure you will agree that I can be allowed to criticise my own brother of umpteen years too if I feel he does something wrong? Right?

      I am sure you will agree that over-zealousness for one person/entity without questioning can lead to harmful outcomes, as demonstrated by many events over the last few years around the world, or during the Crusades, or even in our own country multiple times in the last century. Right? Many lives are lost unnecessarily or progress is hindered because a group of people have blind faith over someone/something and consider it infallible because there is justification in some texts or historical records. Now I'm not saying that that's what's happening in this discussion, but what you can see is that it's healthy to question some things that are even considered absolute truth. If someone did not question the 'absolute truth', then we would still believe the earth is flat and the sun goes around the earth. So even though something might be believed with full heart and soul as true because everyone says so, I am sure you understand why it is important to be able to question it. Agree?

      Similarly, if there was a great thinker, visionary and teacher a long long time ago who is still revered today as one of the greatest, we can still ask him/her questions, right? That's what we do in a classroom when a teacher teaches us. Yes? I hope we agree so far that asking questions to a teacher is a fair thing? The best teachers love it when their students/followers ask questions. It means they really are willing to understand their teachings.

      Let me know if you agree so far, and we can continue then :)

      Have a good day!

      Vaibhav

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  40. Vinay think if you got success in conincing the people then what next ?I completely understand you want our society better am I correct? As per my knowledge we should do some thing else rather than convincing the people as my thinking would be mine your's would be your's . Better we have to analyse what Chanakya said first and please don't include your science here man, there are many area in the world where science is helpless ,If you want example then I can give 1000 of examples but in this blog I should not write those examples so my dear friend ,Like chanakya if you want to do some thing good for women then first start giving good education , I believe in old era women were far better than today's women ( saying %wise only) because they don't want to respect works related to home , even I would say women who respect their home's work are real home maker and many educated women not only working for home but doing lots of work outside the home also. Chanakya said about the women is nothing but a natural behaviour only nothing else . leave it as he has said many good things about women and his experience and thinking is not questionable

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    1. Do you think I am here to score point or just to convince people (that's just one goal out of many)? You are right we all should something more rather than just debating or trying to convince each other, giving girls proper education and equal opportunity is one very good step but that won't happen unless we remove prejudice against them and that's why this effort nothing else.

      Did I bring science here? Rather you guys told me that whatever flaws (or qualities) of women Chanakya or other people are talking are 'natural' and nothing can be done about that, so if it's natural then science does study that in genetics and social sciences and that's why I asked for some unbiased and reliable data which no one bothered to share or reproduce.

      There are very few areas in which science is still trying to understand totally and work is still in progress and it will be like that until this universe exist, by no means on can call it helpless, science is a continuous process it will never end (at least as long as our civilization exists) and can you tell me is there any other tool apart from science which we have today to understand things? And according to you in places where science is helpless what is helpful there? I am just curious...

      Who told you that only women should respect work related to home? They do respect it, but when they are forced to do such work only because they are women and people assume that they are supposed to do it (just because some or many people believe its their job naturally) then they have full right to reject this type of demand. I have equal respect for home related work as I have for other work and think that man or women both should do it and share the responsibility. They have to develop that understanding between them (couple) based on their needs and convenience (not only based on gender). Home maker title is not only reserved for women in today's world, according to me it can be either a man or a woman.

      [Chanakya said about the women is nothing but a natural behaviour only nothing else ]

      You are repeating same sentences again and again without even giving single evidence. And as I already said may be according to you some of the things which he said about women are not questionable but they are very much questionable according to me, we can agree to disagree on this point.

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  41. Hi Vaibhav,

    Thanks and your point ask the question is correct but Vaibhav my only
    point is there is no significance if we question Chanakya , If
    evidence is required that women has such nature then you can see the
    long history and that is perfect data and you know chanakya said some
    beautiful lines also about women but still he has said truth
    regardless against whim he I saying like

    He said : Aurton ke pass jo sahansheeta hoti hai wo puruson se kai
    guna jyada hoti hai

    Q: People will say what is the parameter ? ( Answer: On those days
    Chankya observed indian people and decided his own strategy to fight
    against not only sikander but against dhanand and won the battle
    without fighting so after seeing such a miracle , can anyone question
    him?? also almost all battle happened because of women , land & money
    mostly because of women , we can't deny ( perfect data present in
    history). So my dear he must have said these statement on the basis of
    some parameter only.

    Vinay said he is not a good teacher ( I wonder how come please explain
    ?, I already said if personally you don't like him and for saying
    purpose you say, you respect him then its quite okay but
    unfortunately he was the good teacher)

    If you type in Google, even suggestion shows that he was a teacher , (
    Proof : Again
    "he trained chandragupt who was living in Village and belongs to the
    poor family and later he became king of Bharat .. Do you think Chankya
    capability is questionable, From my side No.

    Even we should fight for men for below cases:

    1. They are not getting reservation in any field if they belong to
    General , However Girls have reservation every where even many boys
    couldn't get the seat in the best colleges despite they have the
    capabilities .
    2. I am surprised when Vinay said people think women are for home work
    only , So my thinking is.. it is not the case .. and long time back I
    clearly remembered I saw one program where the natural qualities of
    women have been already shown. Women hold the book like a kid and
    etc..
    3. Women are very free and government is doing better for them even
    tax benefit which is mandatory for men but they are not getting , If
    both are equal then why???
    4. Pratibha patil said she want women in Air force , I don't have a
    habbit to abuse any one but don't you think it is stupidity ??? why I
    am telling you one pilot takes around 20 Millions to be a fighter
    piolt and this statement had been sent by Captain of air force to
    Pratibha patil but she denied despite of knowing this is the matter of
    protection of our country so what chankya said " women are natural
    stupid in some cases ) , Its a truth whether we believe or not
    .................so please think here in blog it is very easy to write
    a comment and asking for evidence but practically it is quite
    different .. We need to support truth and at least think 1000 times
    what Chanakya said and what was the logic behind it else I am sure he
    wouldn't have told , Whatever chanakya said is on the basis of his
    experience and we can challenge, I am not denying but again need to
    analyse first very deeply , I personally not opposite to women but
    observed same behaviour in women and sorry to say new generation
    didn't have moral values they fight with their parents mostly I have
    seen girls ( This is only I have seen) . Some girls are still good but
    they forgot their duty and as far as boys are concerned then they also
    doing the same but again I have seen %wise less.. and please don't say
    that I have only seen I am also living in the society so have little
    knowledge and fortunately or unfortunately I can support only truth..
    If people say it is injustice then they should fight to nature which
    made women physically weak than men.. But yes I can say some qualities
    which nature has given to women far better than men .. so this is the
    matter of accepting the truth..

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  42. Abhi, I'll summarise it short and sweet. I have better things to do than ruin a well-educated person's insightful and well-balanced blogpost.

    NOTES ABOUT THE TOPIC:
    1. No one is attempting to malign Chanakya's image. Read the article again and again or any of Vinay's comments and there's no attempt at that.
    2. Chanakya's views (most, not all) on women (or as the post itself mentions, the possibly distorted version of his quotes) are inherently wrong and demeaning. Deal with it.
    3. To make sweeping statements that almost all battles, wars and terrible things in the world have been due to women (or any single person or community) is plain wrong and illogical. To further claim it is based on facts and we can't deny it, is even worse. One doesn't need to be a feminist to deny any of that. There are examples to support any form of bias.
    4. The old-age society was highly male-dominated and such views were prevalent. Fine. None of those are valid today. They are wrong in any time and age, but today we know also that blaming a gender or community for poison in the society is the sign of a contorted mindset.
    5. Deification of a person is counter-progressive and can lead to a hallucinogenic state of mind. Potentially very dangerous.

    TO YOUR VIEW ON RESERVATIONS:
    Reservations is something quite off-track from the topic of the post. It is a sensitive topic and highly debated, not only for reservation of women, but also different communities in the country. The intention behind such reservations for women is to bring more representation of women into society, so that the broader community has a more balanced/fairer approach when dealing with matters, otherwise people will remain with archaic views that women are inferior to men and are cause of all trouble. I'm not saying reservation is right or wrong.. just bringing out its motive. There are pros and cons, but lets keep that topic aside as it is not relevant here.

    GENERAL FEEDBACK:
    1. Let's assume for a minute that yes indeed women have historically malicious and sly. Let's have it your way for a minute. So most bad things in the world have been due to cunning thoughts of women or their manipulations have been successful in bringing down empires. Accepted, for this paragraph only. What should be the right thing to do now, according to you? Today, everyone is trying to bring equality and freedom etc. in thoughts and things are going well. Should we continue distrusting women and look down upon them as distrustful? Should we continue with age-old sayings that women are not trustworthy, unclean, snake-like, etc.? Is that the view you would like to hold for your wife or daughter (if you have)? Or would you say we should help destroy this view because if women aren't looked as favourably as men, then half of the society is being ill-treated? Forget history for now... and say we want to progress into the future and want everyone to succeed... should we be inclusive, or should we not trust half the society?
    2. Moral degradation is a societal aspect, not a gender-specific one. Limiting oneself to personal experiences of the kind are exactly what hindered Chanakya's views on women (or the distorted versions of his quotes). Saying that women are cause of most evil is itself a morally deprived statement.

    I tried to be short and sweet.. turned out not to be.. sorry!

    Vaibhav

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    1. Thanks a lot Vaibhav for summarizing things so nicely, it's not easy to be short and sweet on some social issues as one need to explain many things but you did a great job. Many things which Abhi mentioned in his comment I already explained in my replies to him and others also so I am not going to repeat those things again. I also asked him to show where I said Chanakya was a bad teacher and I will withdraw that sentence but he didn't produced the evidence (which should not be difficult to produce). Repeating same lines again and again doesn't make them right or logical.

      As you correctly said reservation is very sensitive subject and I am planning to write on it in future. I think intention behind is right but implementation is not very good, but we will leave this topic for another time.

      If people say all wars and bad things happened because of women, then who fought in those wars? Men or women? Who killed each other, men or women? Then what does it show? Do women are much more intelligent than men that they can manipulate then in any way they want? Were they so powerful to destroy whole kingdom and make not a single man but groups of men fight against each other? Does history teach us that? I dont think so, one can look at the history the way he/she wants and we are free do draw our own conclusions but we should use some logic and common sense to check if that conclusion is biases or not. You have summed it very nicely and I dont think I need to add anything more to it. Thanks..

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    2. Thanks Vinay for your comments. I agree with what you say. Hopefully others understand too.

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  43. Hi All,

    Whatever you are saying is partially correct but again you mistaken me , I don't have such thoughts but yes whatever I said you couldn't received it, why you are saying that old era is male dominant and why are you not saying this time is female dominant ?? you should think both side my dear . And I have studied a lot about Chankaya but want you people to analyse but forget it, I will explain what he said . You are quite correct that his statements are wrongly presented in front of the world or you can say people are misguided about him . Once I get time then I will explain to you . whatever he said is nowhere wrong and you will be surprised after knowing that he didn't say anything bad about women but I will write a blog for it once I get the enough time as I have lots of information about his thoughts which will be useful for you all guys..

    Don't you think if you say male dominant then you are generalizing all men's nature it is totally wrong you cant say for every man . even men are more polite then women and In today's environment female has more good treatment than men. Do you have the same thoughts about your father and brother that they were dominating women ?? So I am worried about men.. else their future will be spoiled if such type of blog says that male are dominant.. I am just saying both male and female should have the equal treatment but unfortunately male are being suffered now a days..

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    1. I wonder who said this era is female dominant? At least I didn't say that , and I dont even want female dominant era, I am not interested in male or female dominant era, I want both to share equal responsibility and have equal status in society. I am looking forward to your blog about Chanakya's views about women, let me know when you publish it.

      Male dominant era doesn't mean generalizing nature of all men, but it means general stage of society where males hold powerful positions and are more dominant socially and our history is witness to it. It's not about politeness but about dominance both are separate things. Today we are trying to give fair treatment to both not good treatment to one gender and bad treatment to other, if it is so then what's the difference?

      Yes my father or even me are born and raised in male dominated society and we are trained to believe that men are more capable than women in many ways, but I realized on my own (based on personal experience and with help of my reading) that this is not at all true and then changed my thinking. In humans only gender doesn't decide who is dominating and who is not, many factors including social settings are responsible for that. I will be interested in knowing why you think male are suffering now a days, I don't see that but would be interested in knowing why you think this way. Thanks

      Delete
  44. Sad to know that you are born in male dominant family and it is really appreciated that you changed your thinking, very good Vinay this time I am really happy to know that you have your own thinking..

    Now I really want to publish my blog as it may happen that you and others who think Chanakya statements are wrong can change their thinking

    If you talk about witness then why don't you think that there are many witness for women's bad behaviours . As far as male dominance is concerned then you will find very practical example around where females are bigger enemy for female than men so which step we are taking in that area. We all stuck in the point what chankya said , Now I am really thankful to you for using the word witness this is far better than science theory and evidence, As I can give you more witness who can say they are living alone in Ashram because of their Daughter in Law , Now you will say son is equally responsible for that correct ?? But the same son in many cases you would find a ideal son when he was single.. so my dear bro this is just a matter of perception.. And I really appreciate women who can easily brainwash men's mind, this is really a quality of women , And on the other hand a woman can joint the family which scattered so this is also a positive point of woman and because of that quality women are being worshipped in our country but as I mentioned earlier the other form of women in Now a days is in very high ratio , And Chanakya described theses good and bad habits of women beautifully but unfortunately it is in Sanskrit language so I need to translate in Hindi and this time I will be very careful when I translate as world should know what he exactly said.

    Now you are saying where men are being dominated correct.
    If you see the police record then you will surprisingly find 70% dowry case which are fake and once a girl report then without any investigation police arrest the man for 7 year , so don't you think this is injustice ?????

    Also I have discussed the topic for reservation
    In crime cases court is more polite for women than men . why???

    If any boy who is really poor and cannot get the seat in the good college then don't you think in place women reserved seat he should get the chance , Or only gender will decide who will get the seat.

    Now society is women dominant , I can give several more example but I think it is enough. Now for god sake save our society and don't give the unnecessary power to women , If any dowry case comes then first that case should be investigated then court's order should be released rather than taking a man inside a jail.

    After seeing such example don't you really think society gave more power to women than men.

    Again I will say what Chankaya said is very practical but I need your genuine support in publishing the blog and wherever I find myself wrong then I will try to change myself .

    I didn't want to discuss but you will be surprised after knowing that before 7 years I was against the chanakya because he said some thing about women but after attending many seminar about him and after knowing the deep thinking of Chanakya , I analysed properly then I came to know he was not only correct but very practical person.





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    1. Abhi,

      1. You misunderstand what "male-dominant" society means. It does NOT mean a male dominating over a female. Either way, Vinay did not suggest that he was born in the kind of family you picturise to be "male-dominant". The society, yes... the family, no. Please clarify the meaning because there's a huge difference. Vinay has elaborated on this enough, so it is recommended you go check elsewhere what it means, since it is a dictionary term that is not getting through to you, and hence sidetracking the discussion.

      2. I will be curious to read your blog too. Please let us know when it's live.

      3. Your examples serve no purpose. I've mentioned earlier how plenty of examples can be found for any bias.

      4. Your statistics and subsequent conclusions are pulled out of thin air, and hence mean nothing.

      5. Society today is not female-dominant. The certain benefits you see are to encourage more women in areas where they have been under-represented due to large male presence (i.e. male-dominance), intentionally or not. Your ideal scenario of having equal male and female benefits and representation is fair, and that is the same objective as what other are trying to meet, but in a way which is perhaps not immediately obvious to you. Sometimes people need to be incentivised. I agree with you that getting admissions or promotions etc. should be merit-based and not gender- or community-based. You have a fair goal in mind. However despite my own belief that everything should be purely merit-based, I have to admit that not everything is black and white in a complex societal structure. Sometimes we have to look at those grey shades with a pinch of salt because of factors that are out of control. With that in mind, we can't blame others outright :). When someone gets a seat based on what appears to be only gender, it's in fact deeper than that.

      Even in the west, you will see how employers proudly brand themselves as "Equal Opportunity Employers", which in almost all cases means that they will give preference to under-represented communities/gender over the typical white male employee. Is it unfair if they favour someone else who is better qualified? Perhaps yes, if you think of it that way. But the argument for this policy is that a balanced environment allows for more valuable and diverse discussions and hence greater innovation and understanding of each other. The benefits end up far outweighing the apparent loss in quality of hire. In the case of college admissions, engineering colleges particularly give out special scholarships and incentives to females, simply because the traditional 90-10 ratio on campus is unnatural and can negatively affect the communication skills of the boys or create distorted mindsets towards women. Same goes the other way too. That's the argument for it anyway.

      6. Preaching your beliefs is okay, but backing them up with sweeping statements with no concrete evidence doesn't help your cause. Emotions and sentiments are fine in their own place and I respect them. But preaching purely based on them is not going to go very far with people who aren't brainwashed easily.

      7. Repeat of points mentioned in earlier comments: No doubt Chanakya was a very learned and practical person. He is renowned for his wise words and policy/strategy, and not so much for his views on women, for good reason. It doesn't mean he is any less of a being for what he is renowned for. But his demeaning views on women back then, however right or wrong they felt back then, are ultimately wrong and hazardous to current society.

      Have a good day,

      Vaibhav :)

      Delete
    2. Corrections:

      In 4: Yes, there's an element of truth in your points, but the highly exaggerated and proof-less numbers greatly diminish the value of your point.

      In 5: ...factors out of our control*.

      Delete
    3. Dear Abhi,
      The problem is that you only read what you want to read no matter what the author wants to say, I said I was born in male dominant society not just a family, my family was and is part of that society where there are countless homes like ours..I I appreciate your sentiment but dont feel sad just for me but feel sad for our society and we all are product of that society.

      I am surprised to know that before 7 years you were against Chanakya, I used to believe he was right for my entire childhood and entire teen age because like you I saw ample examples around me which seem to support all these statements but then all those incidents had history of thousands of years behind them when I studied it, researched it, came out of that mindset I realized that wow...men and women are not really different in their capabilities, they are equally capable to do most of the tasks in modern world but this was not the case when these books were written, so some of the things mentioned in them about women are totally irrelevant in today's world, this blog just tries to say that. It's not about Chanakya, not about his teaching skills, not about whether he was genius or not, not about his knowledge and expertise in other fields but this is about that particular mindset and prejudice against women which many people had and still have, I was surprised to find that Chanakya was no different (may be as some say he did it purposely, but again this proves that he know whatever he is saying is nor right but he said with certain purpose and motive in mind).

      Do you know any case where court showed more leniency to criminal just because she is a women, Indian penal court law doesn't allow that, rather I don't think any law allow people to judge based on their gender, race or caste. The consideration is only given if women is pregnant or with infant which really needs her presence to survive and this is for the sake of that baby not because she is a woman. Check recent judgement and you will discover the truth, making sweeping statements like this doesn't mean anything, please provide at least 1-2 evidences to back them.

      Dowry is a separate issue and will require separate discussion, so you think 70% cases are fake. I am not sure whether you know the time when this issue was burning issue in Indian society where every day there used to be many reports in news papers all over country about young brides burned alive for dowry..this has reduced considerably now because of this law which is being misused in some cases but this very law saved lives of countless women, I have seen it personally and this law is misused in same way other laws are being (or can be) misused there is no difference.

      [[If any boy who is really poor and cannot get the seat in the good college then don't you think in place women reserved seat he should get the chance]]

      Do you really think reservation issue is so simple?? Vaibhav has explained very nicely in his comment please read it to understand complexity of this issue.
      How nicely you assumed that there are no poor girls who will deserve that seat..and also conveniently assumed that there is only reservation for women in out country and no men or boys get seats from reserved quota...does your statement sound biased or prejudiced to you?

      None of examples you presented even hint that current society is female dominant forget about proving that point, rather they all prove that still women need more encouragement to fill that huge gap of equal representation which is result of centuries of male dominance.

      [[unnecessary power to women]]
      really?? So you are OK with power to men but when same goes to women then it becomes unnecessary??

      contd.

      Delete
    4. contd.

      [[ females are bigger enemy for female]]
      no one is enemy of anyone here, it's that mindset which forces them to behave (male or female) in that particular way, not the gender, understand the real problem..you are making the mistake of just looking at the symptoms nit the cause of disease..

      Who said that there are no examples of bad behaviors of females? Hoe this point is even relevant here? I don't see any connection..

      [they are living alone in Ashram because of their Daughter in Law]
      this is just a gross generalization...I know many examples where only daughters are looking after their parents but their sons don't care..so?? now you will say that those sons dont care because of their wives and daughters care because of their husbands are supportive..right..so every issue or problem has two sides and you are conveniently choosing the one which suits you, in all these cases it's the decision of that couple what to do, only one cannot be blamed for what happened, but I wonder how fast you are to conclude on such complicated social issues..

      [ But the same son in many cases you would find a ideal son when he was single]

      So was that daughter not ideal when she was single? Did she kicked her parents our of their home? Common man you are just drawing your own conclusions and presenting very distorted scenario here, at least be fair in presenting the scenario dont just present in way which looks like pathetic attempt to prove some point, let's discuss with some logic and raise some sensible points then only this discussion will have some value otherwise it won't be nothing more than a argument and I am sure no one wants to argue here but want to have healthy discussion where we can share and care. Thanks

      Delete
  45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoRQsmFdJt8

    Please see this link this is just an real example, It doesn't mean that every woman like that but I am just making you aware how man spoil their life

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    1. Dear Abhi,
      What you even want to say by sharing this video?? There are countless more like these? What do the prove and according to you what does it say anything about women?

      Are you serious when you say that most women are like this or even most men are like the criminal here? really??

      Do you judge people around you based on these incidents, crime was and will be around us until end of our civilization..this video creates a serious doubt in my mind...but it also explains all your comments above..so in one way this was helpful. Thanks.

      Delete
  46. Hey man , I am really sad after seeing your level of perception , I can try to to rectify myself whenever I feel I am wrong but whatever you observed is totally worng and my examples are not bad , you should have the courage to see the real world okay.

    I am a common man so what do you have any problem ??? You might be very big personality okay .
    I would say only one thing, You have lots of inertia in your mind so please remove it ,I am scolding you now like a friend and leave this topic for some time and go and visit the locality in India then you will have a clear picture in your mind .

    I have already said in my post I am sharing the real incident video it doesn't mean every woman are like that but just want to show you how one woman can brain wash . And why Chanakya said for some women like that ( Note : for some women not for everyone)

    Do you think you are not a common man??? So live with your dream world and i am sorry to say that you are doing argument only. You have lots of point just for comment but base less .

    Did I say daughters are not ideal ???Even they are ideal after marriage for only their parents but made boy to leave their parents so you can say this is the foolishness of men but who is responsible for that ??? ( Saying abt more % women in society not generalizing this else again you will have enough point to distract the topic and unnecessary argument)

    Are you enemy for male generation or what or don't you have courage to accept the truth???
    I am really not against the women but please you also don't present the male's picture wrongly in-front of the public , what you say earlier "in mythology also only man has written bad about women then I can't help you dear , I don't have enough patience to make you understand "

    Vaibhav I know what is dominant meaning okay but yes you have said some point which however relevant , Also I want you also to see the real india and world closely , rest of the thing you will understand Automatically.

    As far as female dominance is concerned they are dominating the world indirectly via man only .

    I observed where ever I gave practical example Vinay didn't picked up that Like dowry case .

    So the moral of the story remove your inertia and try to accept the truth or if you are not able accept then change it .

    Note: I salute women for their good habits ,same for the men but cant support bad habits regardless gender And yes I can't support unreasonable comments against the truth.

    Have a nice day day to Both. :-)

    Please forgive me If anyone felt bad but I couldn't stop myself today this is not that I am Short-tempered but its my duty to make you guys understand that it is a public post any both men and women values are important and for making the society balance we need to give the treatment to not only to men but to women also

    If you have any real examples the welcome to share ..Truth doesn't need any explanation

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    1. Dont worry Abhi, your every comment and sentence makes perfectly sense to me and I totally understand from where they are coming.

      I have no problem whether you are a common man, uncommon or whatever, who are you or who am I doesn't matter, thats not an issue here. Forget about visiting those localities, I am born and brought up in those localities, I am one of them, I know why these people behave in that way, why they think like that, I lived among them, so please speak for yourself and please refrain from making any personal comments.

      I know that that was real incident and so are where fathers abuse their daughters sexually, brother rapes sister, son kills his parents, so?? if some one makes comment about men based on these incidents do you think its right?

      [[Even they are ideal after marriage for only their parents but made boy to leave their parents so you can say this is the foolishness of men but who is responsible for that]]

      really?? make boy to leave his parents?? Do you think any man or women can pursue me to leave my parents? And if they do then it's not their fault it's mine, entirely mine and I can not blame anyone for that. And there is no generalization in this, only 'I' have power and ability to take my decisions and stand by it, it's very easy to accuse others and run away from responsibilities, very easy and I don't do that.

      I am not enemy of any gender or generation and I have absolutely no hesitation in accepting the truth, show it to me, prove it to me and then level these allegation just talk won't help. I am not at all presenting any picture of male here I am just trying to present picture of women correctly here, if you see anything else then check you might be looking at wrong picture or may be with some bias or prejudice.

      I have tried to answer each and every question which people ask here with supporting evidence (wherever possible) but I never received any answer with any reliable evidence (except links to some TV serials) from anyone who claims these biased views against women to be scientific and true. I appreciate if any of you guys take that effort and show some reliable proof to back your statements. Thanks.

      Delete
    2. [[cant support bad habits regardless gender]]

      great... that's what the post is all about, bad habits are not associated with or belong to any particular gender but are bad no matter who does it. Women are not any better or worst than men, they are equal. So you say something here and then go and agree which means totally opposite (may be because some famous personality said it..) and that's my friend is really amazing.

      Delete
  47. Who said chankya didn't say about men???

    Go and see his comment about son then let me know.

    So you are saying that you have the power to take your decision so that's good man but what about the uneducated men ???? They are not intelligent enough like you to take the decession and what evidence you want , Real stories are the best examples but yes my bro I know you are very much supportive to women and want to make their image good but my only concern is make their habits good ,means do work for them and when common man realize the same in women then they will accept .

    And again please leve the Chankaya statments until I publish my blog I am putting my lots effort in that but it will take time as I am also working 10-12 hrs in a day.

    If you want to analyze then buy the good books and read it properly till then.

    What evidence you have that male are dominant??? Except real example,link and tv serial?

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    1. I read all his statements and observations and then only wrote this post. SO now you say that common people (specially men) are not intelligent...no my friend..they are but their minds are conditioned. Yes real stories are best examples and there are many about men which show them in as pathetic, sex hungry creatures but those also don't generalize their behaviors and one can not attribute these characteristics to all men and same is applied to women, very simple.

      I read, reading is my passion and hobby, I don't call a book a good or bad, I just love them and take whatever is relevant to me and leave the rest.

      I didn't say anywhere that male are dominant, did I? Again you are reading what you want to read and deriving your own meaning. I said male dominated society and if you want evidence that our society was or is a male dominant...then just open your eyes and look around..you will see ample examples, show me any temple where poojari is male, check ratio of male and female in private and public sector or income tax filing, etc. etc. hope they are enough and I made my point clear.

      Delete
    2. http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/Women_and_Men_in_India,_2010#Work-force_participation

      read..good or bad and improve your knowledge..

      Delete
  48. I read your link it is good link..


    But

    Better you told me in early stage that you read all about chanakya.. So why you are needing my blog??? are you here just for argument??? or just want to misguide people,

    What you know about chankaya first tell me .

    Why he said "One should not believe on river??? " and how many reason he told behind it just tell me the count I will praise your knowledge about him..

    And Its a myth that society is male dominant ,, some one said walk 10 steps rather than read 100 books , one will get more knowledge..
    Now I am sure you will say you covered 100 steps..right??

    As I said you earlier that you have inertia in such a extent , No body can make you understand..

    So If you really want to share my study and analysis about chanakya thoughts then I am putting effort but if after presenting my research in your blog if you are going to make baseless comment then I would say here only that " only you are correct and I am wrong . and you are the greatest thinker even more than chanakya and male are not as much as intelligent women etc.. and whatever you said is 100% correct.. thanks "

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    1. Dear Abhi,
      Again you are reading what you want to read...I didn't not say I read all about Chanakya..it's not possible for me to read everything written about him. I said I read all his statements which are available in book form or on line, there is a difference between two. I wrote the post after confirming that indeed this is what the statement means and they are by Chanakya, that's all I meant.

      What I know about Chanakya or what you or someone else knows about him is not an issue here. I already said this many times and repeating once again in case you didn't understand this. The post is not at all about him, get that straight, it's about his views about women and talk about that, explain us the real meaning if you can (if you think they mean something else than what I wrote in post, that will definitely help)

      Passage of women reservation bill itself is an indication of male dominant society, same happened to reduce dominance of upper caste people (when they introduced caste based reservations), I know it's a separate subject and will require separate discussion I am just mentioning for the sake of showing what is meant by dominance.

      I don't claim anything and don't have any inertia but just statements are not enough, so far you have not produced 'ANY DATA' even data is not enough sometimes to project the real picture but you didn't bothered to do that also, just made statements without any evidence to back them. I thought your Blog will bring some more relevant information that's why was interested in it but if its going to be again just statements then I don't think it will be of more use, but still you have right to publish it if you feel necessary. Thanks.

      Delete
  49. I will say please open your eyes and see the world ( see what exactly in the world but not which you want see and wants others also to see the same you want)

    And what you said 'ANY DATA' okay I agreed but my dear bro please give me the data for the statements which are written in Geeta for women and men

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    1. That's what I am doing and then only I wrote the post. I don't believe anything blindly or just because some great person said it be it Chanakya or Bhagavad Gita.

      Do do you know what exactly the real world is? Everyone and I mean it, everyone sees it through their own colored glass, Chanakya saw it through his and I am seeing it through mine. I just make sure that I make my glass as colorless as possible and even after that I don't claim that mine is the only right way, people are free to see the way they want.

      Which statements in Gita you are talking about? I asked for the data when you said that 'its natural' or some of your statements hinted that this is how most women are...then there should be some data to support it or some social studies done to research this topic, and I was referring to this nothing else. I have not claimed anything from Gita here so I don't have to give data but if you want to prove some point you nee to produce it not me...Thanks

      Delete
    2. that is what I wanted to say people are free to see the way they want .

      If you want to see through your way so who are we to stop you ?? you are free like wise we are also free .

      For your case you need data which are already driven but I believe in generating the data if it is not possible for me then there other ways like practical example we can belive with.
      And for you kind information practical is the mother of science and theory, and on the basis of real example only those days they made their own experience and wrote in books so my dear friend in place of asking data from others you can provide the real world practical example and don't convince any one , If you examples would have reality & power then rest of the world will accept your thinking .. like Chankaya , he has proved him self but unfortunately he is no more else he could have given you better explanation.

      Note : Here no one is blind and no body is blindly accepting Chankaya statements they are well educated also well known thinker and after getting some strong base only they are accepting chankya's thoughts so don't think like that.

      Delete
    3. The difference is I produced at least some research paper and links to show that there is no difference between capabilities of men and women, you just made statements. All what you said, like Dr. Kalam or whoever agreeing to you that Chanakya was right about women when he said above mentioned things, you never bothered to produce any evidence that they did this on any public forum. If this is very widely accepted truth then people should not hesitate to say it in public, right...but you didnt produce evidence.

      I have seen many examples which prove my point and look around you will see many women excelling in every field they got chance, this is enough to prove their capabilities. Your comments are becoming repetitive.

      Rest of the world has already accepted my thinking, just look around and show me any person who publicly endorses the views about women which I mentioned in my post or may others claimed as 'natural qualities' of women...till now no one produced me any evidence which can support their claim...once former Harvard president said something like this and whole world knows what was the result of those statements, I don't have to give any bigger proof than this..

      Note: then show that strong base to the world, just dont say that there is strong base, it doesn't mean anything..if it's so strong why not others see it?

      Delete
  50. I have already given you the link and I am sure if you really put effort then you will get the data where you will find that man's mind is better than woman's mind but you are not even want to know the reality .

    Practically you can easily see how many scientists are male and how many are female in the world you can easily have the idea where female stands

    And the link you have provided how can one believe on that as it is totally fake it is showing female are better than male but in reality it is just opposite .

    Note : I am not against the women but what can I do if it is reality?

    Off course I will try to contact the people who belongs to such link and will ask for the 'DATA' okay

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    1. Link?? Which link? I didn't see any links other than links to some TV serials or crime thrillers...and you call them proof or material to study?? There are many like this showing dark side of both the genders, but as I said already after reading this now I perfectly understand why you think like this and why you believe that females are inferior to males. I provided link to research paper not to some TV serial or just a news paper article, I know that you don't understand the difference between them but for your information there is huge difference..

      I don't even believe that females are better than males, they are equal. And who cares whether you or me are against women or with them, please don't worry, even person like Chanakya couldn't stop from women form achieving what they deserve so who are we? Just chill, whether you like it or not they are going to get their rightful place in our society, just wait and watch.

      haaa...so you say that there are more male scientists than women (which is true)...based on this statistics men are smarter than women..right...man I know with whom I am dealing but wasn't aware that you think at such a primitive level...so lets apply your this great logic to some other stats...

      In India so called upper castes hold more top positions in almost all blue collar jobs (which are supposed to require more intelligent brain) and they are even dominant in education sector (pre-reservation era and after), there are more doctors and engineers from these castes, so according to your logic these people are 'more intelligent' and that too "naturally" than so called lower caste people (and please exclude females from this calculation just for the sake of comparison do male to male comparison)...right..so it seems even among males also some are "naturally" more intelligent just based on which family they are born, may be special DNA right?? or something else, please elaborate..:)

      Check the Nobel price winners, or scientists in US or European countries, there are significantly more white people than black, so after looking at this stat, do you mean one race is 'NATURALLY' more intelligent than other??

      I must say that you have great logic man..keep it up..my mistake that I expected something better..Thanks anyway.

      Delete
  51. This Abhi guy is an absurd creature still living in dark ages. Someone pls give him professional help. Abhi rai has no idea of what is happening in the world because he must be living in a dark basement for last 1000 yrs. Also has no communication skill because he is not at all reading what Vinay (and Vaibhav later) is explaining. The biggest problem with the world today is that overconfident blind-deaf fools like Abhi rai exist and try to prove that they are right. Pls get professional help abhi and come out of the dark ages. Your listening and learning skills are zero so no point in telling you anything, so go happily live the useless life you live and let others do the good in the world. Hope you never get married otherwise the girl's life will be hell with you. If by some misfortune you do get married, hope you never get a child otherwise if it's a daughter her life will be hell but if it's a son, the poor fellow will have to get pathetic ideology from u when growing up. Even Chanakya must be crying why you came to this planet to spoil his image. Peace.

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    1. Thanks a lot for your comment, I can totally understand your anger after reading all these type of comments, but believe me there are many people (and from both genders) who think like this. We need to confront this type of mentality whenever we see it and we can also see that even so called educated people are not free of this type of superiority effect. We can clearly see the result of years or centuries of conditioning of human mind and society.

      Delete
    2. Yes and Abhi rai seems to be one of those prime specimens of the 'educated' class who are absolutely brainwashed. You are right, we must continue to confront this mentality, otherwise fools will dominate.

      Delete
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  53. You both are frustrated men and what are you trying to show the world that whatever Chanakya said is not correct about women , am I right?

    Now seeing the anger of this person I can say why are you cowered and running away from truth and your anger is totally unreasonable because I am not brain washed but believe in truth for you kind of person making our society hell.



    what you people think that I am against the women but you both are completely wrong , I did many good works for women but didn't want to mention here.

    You both are having inertia and want to live in dark and cannot face light of the sun.

    Thanks at least you said me educated else I was expecting more bad words from your side , I praise you people for one thing , which is "you never accept truth and always wants others to provide the evidence , you all have enough statements just for argument nothing else"

    I know what I am and don't have any inertia , after attending lots of seminar and after knowing the depth of Chanakya I believed.

    I just wanted to say if women are physically weak the its not their problem but it is natural.they have different qualities better than men which are natural so where I am wrong but your kind of people still exist in the society who said fool to others then I really feel shame that you people don't have enough polite word in the dictionary , whatever I wrote , I can understand I could be wrong somewhere and after some time if I will come to know that in some points I am not correct then I can accept new things rather than fighting like you people .

    Who are you to tell me what I will do after marriage with my wife?? Its my personal area you people should not comment on that and what you will teach to your daughter go and say fool to others and release bad comments for others , as far as chanakya said is not only correct but bitter truth so go and keep on reading about him .
    Vinay you said you have read all about chanakya I could have used bad wording , why because you didn't read about him in depth , I am sure as this is Sanskrit and I wanted to translate it in English so , was putting effort and tried to contact the professors who conducted seminar for Chanakya .

    I will publish my blog definitely but I remembered chanakya one more dialog for you kind of people but better I should write here .

    You know common sense is the father of all the senses and don't need data but don't worry if necessary then I will come in this dirty environment where I am insulted by you people and will show the people what Sir Chanakya has said .

    As far as my personal life is concerned then leave it to me how I will educate to my child but yes definitely he/she will not use baseless commenting like you.


    Galileo also said truth that earth is a planet but he had to spent some time in jail for the same but after some the world came to know he was correct but here the case if different you people don't want to face truth.

    see the below link
    http://www.kidsastronomy.com/academy/lesson110_assignment2_4.htm

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    1. [You know common sense is the father of all the senses and don't need data]
      We are not talking about common sense here dear Abhi, Women are inferior to men might be a matter of common sense for you but not for me and for many people in this world, it's a very pathetic and sexiest statement according to me. And if you claim it to be true the you need to produce the data, any general statement like this needs some evidence, this is how the world works, whether you like it or not.

      [if necessary then I will come in this dirty environment where I am insulted by you people and will show the people what Sir Chanakya has said]

      OK, so now this is dirty environment, why? just because someone said something to you?? I never saw you using this term before, when people wrote similar sentences about others. This is real world man, don't be scared of getting wet if you jump in water, that is how it is.

      Thanks for sharing the link about Galileo, but I am sure everyone of us knows his story and there are many stories like him where people challenged well established beliefs and faced heavy resistance from society which wanted to preserve that mindset (because it was said by someone famous or genius or divine) and I feel strange that you are citing his example because at least in this case you are defending age old belief system and some of us are challenging it and questioning it (exactly like Galileo did)...so I wonder what you mean by giving example of Galileo...

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    2. [You both are frustrated men]
      really? rather we are happy people who celebrate success of both the genders and glad to see that even after years or mental suppression women are coming out of the boundaries which male dominant society set to them and proving their mental..but there are some who still dream to push them back to same place where they think women belong but can not fulfill their dream now, so judge yourself who is frustrated here.

      [you trying to show the world that whatever Chanakya said is not correct about women , am I right]
      yes, absolutely right, you got this one right, I am glad. But this one is not about Chanakya or any other person, the issue here is the mentality against women, against their freedom to choose, prejudice against their capabilities, stereotyping their gender..if you know meaning of these terms you will understand what I am talking about.

      [I did many good works for women but didn't want to mention here]
      Dear Abhi women don't need good work from your or my side, they dont depend on us for their progress, they are capable of doing that on their own. If we can just stop putting hurdles in their path, it will be enough of good work from our side.

      ["you never accept truth and always wants others to provide the evidence]
      No, I expect myself also to provide evidence and explanation if I claim anything. I just dont make the statements and say this is the truth, accept it or you have inertia, read the comments carefully..but I am not surprised by this statement.

      [if women are physically weak the its not their problem but it is natural]
      Even this physical weakness is in relative terms and is not limiting factor in today's world, but no where I discussed about physical strength, and here that is not an issue at all. If you are really interested in scientific study on this subject then go and read some articles about this you will scientific reasons for this difference.
      here is one for your kind reference,
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683
      I know you don't believe in such data or dont like to produce any evidence but I like to support my statements with at least some supporting evidence rather than just making a statement.

      Both genders show many good or bad qualities, very few of them are gender specific (and even those vary from culture to culture and religion to region), there are many reasons for these differences, gender or race or caste is not the reason here.

      [Vinay you said you have read all about chanakya I could have used bad wording, why because you didn't read about him in depth]
      What do you mean by this statement? Its not at all clear to me. Where did I used bad wording according to you? Show me the lines and I will delete them or apologize for it. I don't moderate comments on my blog, all comments against or for my post are there to read for everyone. Everyone is free to express their opinion on the topic. I delete them only when they are too abusive or not at all related with topic. Again don't just make statements back it up with some evidence. Thanks

      Delete
  54. You made a big assumption that I am male. I didn't give my name, but you automatically assumed I am male. I could be or I couldn't be, but clearly you have flawed thinking, Abhi. It seems you are most frustrated. Kya tabse inertia ki bakwaas kare ja rahe ho yaar. Apna inertia dekha hai kya? Hawa mein statement phenkte ja rahe ho, kuch seminars attend karke brainwash ho gaye, aur doosro pe bebuniyaad ilzaam laga rahe ho. Yes I called you 'educated', not educated. Saavan ke andhe ko hara hi hara nazar aata hai. Galileo's observations were able to be proved scientifically with indisputable evidence once the tools came about. Your statements are pure self-made bakwaas and sign of a person with very limited knowledge, because all data and scientific proof points to the truth which is completely opposite of what you are saying. Give up Abhi. Vinay is trying so hard to make you open your eyes. Anyone else in the world would simply kick your butt and tell you to go learn about Chanakya and the real world today. A true educated person would say ki okay yes I will go read more as maybe there is something logical in what you guys are saying. A true educated person would say ki okay I should keep learning from others too as I am not sarv-gyaani. Aapko koi idea hi nahi hai. Bas apni hi dhun mein ud rahe hain.

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    1. I am not kind of person like Gandhi so if any one say bad about me I know how to handle it .. and pls keep your dirty mouth shut else pls come in front then I can show you Subhas Chandra bosh language. ok

      I know you are coward person and for your kind of information I am also one person who has given some new concept in physics . Vinay sorry if I include your name in between but let me teach the lesson to this person then he/she will not have even his/her leg to kick. I will make this person handicapped

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    2. Aap to kaafi violent nikle. Asliyat nikal hi aayi aapki.

      Delete
  55. At least I have attended seminars and have some idea.. your frustration is clearly visible and the category you belong is blind and cheap . kum se kum mujhe hara to nazar aa raha hai but you are blind. aur ye naam chupa ke kya chat ker rahe ho /ya rahi ho .. saamne aa ker bat kero . and please don't force me to use different kind of treatment ok. If you are girl then its quite natural but if are boy then pls come in front and why are you not waiting till I publish my blog it will have all these data okay. and I have brain that why it can be washed what about your kind of people who doesn't even have brain?? leave it by d way I don't want to continue any conversation with you however vinay is little logical and sensible than you so can you please keep your mouth shut else give your number so that we can have direct chat .

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  56. *Yawn*. I am a coward na, so how can I give my number? Think yaar. You are brave, so you should give your email/number na.

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    1. I think things are getting little personal here, which is not the intention and purpose of this blog and our discussion. It will be great if we stick to the topic and avoid commenting about each other. We are not here to judge each other or to display our qualifications or anything like that. I know that sometime people get emotional and use the words or language which they should not be using but let's keep that to minimum and avoid as much possible. If we keep on doing that then discussion turns into some useless argument and I am sure no one of us want to do that. Thanks..

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  57. if chanakya had said something abt women then definitely there wud have been some hidden logic behind it.

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    1. Why he said these things... this is what everyone is trying to figure it out...obviously whatever he said is not true..then why he said it? Was it a deliberate move to keep his students focused? Was it because of his personal bitter experiences with women? or something else??..no one has any definite answers...rather some people think whatever said about women is truth and all (or most) women are like the way he described them...so ironic..

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    2. Ya Anonymous your true... see the comment just below

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    3. if you guys dont have any inputs to share and continue the discussion then you are at wrong place, this place is to share the ideas and discuss the issues, not to shut each other up...thanks

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  58. See Every one ... we don't know the every reason why his views or writings regarding women are like that.We also cannot correctly say about what he exactly refers regarding women.Its the result of the studies and experience of him.ITS NOT LIKE GREAT MAN IS ALWAYS CORRECT.BUT GENERALLY CONSIDERED TO BE.

    Should think in all ways even some thing might be true when understood correctly and not in a literal way even entire world opposes it.

    So no comments please...

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    1. Thanks for your comment but what exactly you want to say here? What do you mean by we don't know the reason why Chanakya said these things? We all can definitely analyze his writings and study them and find out the reasons behind this, can't we?

      We do this with his other writings and opinions, validate them , see their relevance and then say that his teachings in the area of economics and governance are great and many of them are still relevant...share these things, comment about it...BUT when we find something which looks totally biased or definitely they are not true..still many people think that these things must be true because Chanakya said them and no one should oppose them...I think you mean the same, but my friend there are no absolute truths in this world everything can be questioned and debated..and that's what we are doing here, that's why I write this blog..you are free to come here and discuss things but don't try to tell others what to do and what not I think all of us here know that...

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  59. May be it's not politically correct to endorse Chanakya's views on women in today's world. But the fact remains that he dared to call a spade a spade.

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    1. Thanks for your comment, but we are not discussion here what is politically correct and what is wrong. We are talking about right or wrong irrespective of any tags attached to it, if you believe that Chanakya was right about his views on women than can you please take some effort to explain us what is your rationale behind it? Just making some statement without any evidence is easy, back it up with some proof. Thanks.

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  60. Was looking up Chanakya's coomments on women and browsed through your discussions.

    I am middle aged and been among different societies across our globe.

    CHANAKYA IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT WOMEN
    (oh! I'm sorry he was wrong about the mother part : a woman is untrustworthy even as a mother : please check out in the history dept. of any good university)

    Women / females (all species) are natural.
    All of man's 3000years of civilization cannot extinguish her instinct to mate and get away with as many of the best(offsprings) before she runs out of her hormones.

    WOMEN WILL NOT BE CIVILIZED.

    Now she knows how to twist civilization to preserve her instincts.

    WOMENS LIBERATION = UNLIMITED FREEDOM TO PICK MATES AND KICK MATES

    Modern civilization and laws progressively ensure child safety and protection.
    The human female will no longer need family.

    SHE WILL FOLLOW HER NATURE.

    Women understand honor and dignity but it does not make sense to them to take such things seriously, only men do that to preserve a family.

    Womens liberation will pave the way back to a cave man society only this time with laws against violence and laws for child protection.

    BUT THE WORLD WILL HAVE ONLY ONE FLAVOUR
    "CRUELTY" - chanakya did point that out too.


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  61. Another small input that I missed -

    Please do see the difference between -
    "VIOLENCE & CRUELTY"

    Violence is more often than not an act of kindness. (do not laugh without thinking , you will find you are laughing at yourself)

    CRUELTY is the nature of women.

    Woman has beguiled modern society into seeing violence as a crime.
    Woman has beguiled modern society into NOT seeing that the real crime is CRUETLY.

    CRUELTY being her nature woman is a criminal by birth, by nature, and it only within the confines of family, community, society and laws that she can be forced to play the role of a mother, daughter, sister, wife.

    Still it will only be role playing. Her Nature will not be extinguised.

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    1. I have already said what I believe in my post and in my replies to comments. If you think like this then I have nothing to say apart from that either you came across only wrong people in your life or you have heavily biased opinion against women (I am sure anything I say is not going to change it). Thanks for visiting the blog and please look around for many good things performed by people from both the genders so that it can give you more balanced view. Thanks for visiting the blog.

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  62. Dear Vinay

    since you first set up this blog in may'12 till your last post dated may'13 there has been a lot of discussion.

    I read some of it and looks like almost none of the people who have posted their comments /views are even trying to understand the reason of your blog.

    Here, let me try....

    Looking at all fellow humans from within a FRAMEWORK as Chanakya did (atleast his take on women ), and as do you, and as do all who have posted on this blog, well, the comments may be viewed in different ways.

    This FRAMEWORK - is that of thinking of yourself and others as being "human beings" or "civilized human beings"

    Chanakya used terminology to describe what he said to be the "NATURAL flaws" of women within that framework.

    I will step out of the frame work and say "NATURAL traits" of any and all human females.

    Without the framework is BIOLOGY / NATURAL.

    Where the human male is without man-made civilization to curb his biological instinct to SURVIVE & REPRODUCE, using his natural gift for violence.

    Where the human female is without man-made civilization to curb her biological instinct to SURVIVE & REPRODUCE, using her natural gift for bartering her youth.

    We must not forget that men and women are animals, just like any other animal or bird species on earth.

    3000years of man-made civilization drummed into our heads within the first 20years of our life does not extinguish our nature, it only trains us to live as "civilized human beings".

    Talking of just the female of any species she has the added burden of bearing the biological chores of bodily hosting and initially nuturing the new offsprings.

    Here again her biological instincts kick in and it makes no sense, to ever mate with the same male again and reproduce offsprings with similar weaknesses.

    If one can be really scientific and is able to see that humans are animals too, then it is easy to see that Chanakya's words are meant to make us aware of our animal nature and our natural instincts.

    Certain other sexist contests regarding the greatness, the equality, the abilities, the domination, the subjugation, etc.. of either sex of the species are all within the man-made framework of "civilized human beings" but our animal nature and biological instincts extend beyond "being civilized".

    Yes, women are good, great, able, more than equal to men, etc.. etc.. but again all that is within the framework of being man-made "civilized human beings"

    Vinay, you sound pretty concerned & passionate about being civilized (women's rights).

    Do think about cildren's rights too (civilized rights like in India where they can lead a secure childhood and do not have to adjust with, to put it decently, "broken homes").

    Can we trust human nature?
    Man's Liberation - can the male be trusted with his instincts for use of violence.

    Women's Liberation - can the female be trusted with her instincts for use of cruetly that she will not mark the end of the institution called "family".

    Vinay, are you "civilized enough" to endorse movements that will do away with the institution called family.


    Those of you, as seen from your posts on this blog, who are fanatically "Chanakya Chelas" -

    He authored those documents FOR you and your society.

    Do not disrespect Chanakya by studying Chanakya.

    He is not the subject.
    His works are the subject.



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    1. what framework you are talking about? Do you mean socioeconomic conditions of that time? Is thats the case then word 'Natural' will mean different for different societies, because some actions might be considered as natural in some societies but can be highly objectionable in others. We humans take immense pride for being civilized species and thats our achievement, we all know that we are also animal species like many other living on this planet, but we are different and thats why we think and behave differently, if you don't agree with this then just look around and you will realize what I am talking about...you raised many questions which I already answered or explained in my previous replies to some comments, let em know if you want me to comment on any specific issue which was not discussed in this section, repeating same things again and again is too time consuming for me. Thanks for your interest in this blog post and also I appreciate your efforts to share your opinion with us.

      Delete
  63. Dear Vinay
    thank you for your kind responses.

    By natural - I did not mean what may be natural social behaviour in some societies.

    I meant animal instincts/traits/behaviour irrespective of any society.

    We often use terminology from our languages to describe the feelings of our actions, like Chankya did in the past.

    Our nature is not any different from any other species on earth.

    As a species we started living in communities to ensure better survival.

    As communities we formed laws to FORCE ourselves to curb our animal instincts.

    Without the laws forcing us to be civilized we are just animals with all our animal instincts just beneath the surface.

    Why!! even with all the laws of the civilized world in place we still are unable to hold down our animal nature within the family(discord), in the community(disputes & feuds) and within the larger societies(wars).
    We have jails and war tribunals for our own species.
    The good people, you say?

    There may still be hope - I still see more good people(who feel the goodness in a family based community living) than the ignorant ones who demand for "freedom".

    Freedom to go back to our animal nature and take the rest of the species there.

    I am not being judgemental about should we or should we not?

    But, people should start building their courage in this "free & civilized society" based world to know that we are animals who chose to give up the freedom to live like animals.
    We made a choice to FORCE ourselves to be artificial.
    We made a choice to FORCE every animal of our species to behave "civilized".

    Civilized - meaning giving up the freedom of the animal species - but that does not change our biology - we will always remain animals.

    Every human that is born, is born devoid of any memory of civilization.

    Every human that is born, has only its animal instincts intact. Just watch the newborns of our species, it will grab any breast that it can suck milk from (not just its biological mother). The next thing you see in it, is its violence within some months.

    Family and Society FORCE & ENFORCE civilization on it.

    rgds






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    1. [[Our nature is not any different from any other species on earth.]]

      If you say this then how you justify your this statement
      [As communities we formed laws to FORCE ourselves to curb our animal instincts.]

      Do you know any other animal species which have designed and implemented any laws to civilize their society or herd? Do you know any animal species which modified nature or invented new things to fight against natural disasters or diseases? If you think this is common in all animal species then off course we are not different than other animals, and if this is not then "definitely" we are "different" than other animals.

      The post is not about our animal instincts or about meaning of being civilized (it can differ from person to person). The post is about victimization of women and discrimination against them. Man and women are not different species they are different genders of same species and more or less have common pro's and con's, mostly these qualities differ from society to society and culture to culture, to generalize them based on individual observation (which is limited to one culture or country) is wrong..that's all I want to say..other things can be discussed and debated separately.

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  64. @ vinay..... There is not even one point where i can say u r wrong....but one question to u is all the writings of chanikya was of his tyms nd so they got the infulens of those tyms but as a morden tym mns where r v lackin in givin birth to new thoughts ??A debt shud end up with an answer nd thats what i m expectin from u as an writer......
    ....
    Sorry i m not good in queens lanugage but still i guess u got my point

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    1. Thanks a lot Rachit for visiting the blog and sharing your views. I agree that writings of Chanakya was his observation and many of those observations were specific to that time and era. Many of his views on other subjects like politics, economics and governance are still relevant and can be considered as timeless, so people make mistake of looking at all his opinions with similar view (that they are relevant even today). Actually the purpose of post is not to insult Chanakya or blame him but to show that even views of intelligent people like him were heavily biased because of social situations which were heavily biased against women and we should critically analyze and examine every thought or hypothesis before accepting it, no matter from where it is coming.

      We have many people around us who are proposing new ideas and giving birth to new thoughts but if we close doors of our mind and don't listen to them we are not going to know them. I read many books and most of them teach me something new which I didn't learn from any other books which I read in past, there are so many things to learn and appreciate around us but only if we are willing to have inclusive approach. Thanks again for initiating the discussion.

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  65. I have spend a good amount of life near people with power/politics. I must say that his advice fits perfectly in such scenarios. He was likely advising about women who seek power. Not the women who want to work for good but the ones who lust for power. If you disagree then I must say you must spend some time near politicians or wealthy businessmen then you can be the judge how accurate or inaccurate his advice were. Chanakya's two known books are about how to rule a kingdom and how to live your. life . They were never really meant for the general public.

    And your point about chanakya having limited exposure with women is dead wrong. He probably had more exposure to women than you. He had apointed women in police forces, as spies as well as quite a number of administrative posts. So he cannot have a limited knowledge about women when he actually used their services more than any other administrator of that time.

    Sadly a normal civilian mind simply cannot understand the mindset of a lets say , a politician, a soldier or a cop. Nor each of them can understand the mindset of another. If you got experience in some politics or some administrative duties I am sure you wont find his "views" on women so offensive or shocking. And before you say, no, those quotes cannot taken and applied to both genders. A normal male administrator does not get attracted to another man or lowers his guard against another man. Chanakyas the views are best applied to women from a male administrators point of view.
    You simply won't understand these things without real life experience or knowing real facts in politics.
    If you want to learn I suggest start by listening to interviews and lectures of a guy called subramanium swamy. His mindset has a little similarity with chanakya mindset. After few months of studying Dr sway you should broaden your research to any part of politics you find attractive. Diplomacy-Trade,war,peace,veiled threats. Local- popularity, administration, dealing with rivals, gaining support. Internatioan affairs. Frankly the list is very long to type .
    If you want to understand politics then TAKE MY ADVICE. Study Dr Swamy for many months then move on to any part of politics that interest you.
    P.S. - All this IS related to his advice on women.
    I wont bother reading or answering this blog anymore. I accidentaly came here. read and then commented.
    Goodbye

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    1. Thanks a lot for your accidental visit to blog and I appreciate your efforts to share your views related with this topic. First of all if you bother to read the comment section carefully then the you ,must have realized that if he commented about women from specific profession then it might make sense but again in today's world men and women both behave almost similar in those profession.

      And when people (like Prabhupad) when take these comments and interpret they don't say that these comments are about specific traits of women but they apply for all women and that's where it creates prejudice and bias. I am not talking here about politicians or business class people here, Chanakya failed to mention this point in his comments and may be this created whole confusion (if we assume that you are right).

      Again the post is not about politics or business class or people in power, I know their qualities and read about them but this post is not about these things. The post is specifically about bias against women in society. May be you won't find these views about women so shocking but I also don't find it shocking but find it objectionable (would have felt same he he would have said same about men).

      I know very well guy called Dr. S. Swamy and read some of his articles, saw few of his interviews, but didn't find them very interesting, but I am glad that you liked it. I understand the politics to the level which I need to understand, this post is not at all about politics so I don't think that I need to study it at least to write this post. If any one is writing about some very specific topic (like women in politics) then he/she should be very clear about this.

      [[A normal male administrator does not get attracted to another man or lowers his guard against another man.]]

      really?? Now I offer you one suggestion, attend sexual harassment training session and learn who gets attracted to who and who does what...and yes, I am talking about today's world not the world in which Chanakya lived or any other planet, so I am discussing if these things are relevant today or not, this is unfair comparison according to me but we are forced to do it as many people still believe that these views are true even today...so we need to debate this. I hope I cleared your doubts, if not then feel free to ask them (or ask Dr. Swamy if you get chance). Thanks again for your comment.

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    2. I also read this post suddenly but came to the conclusion that we should respect each others thoughts and should have the courage to accept the truth ..
      One is free for believing one's experience . so in my opinion Chanakya was not only correct but he was the correct pioneer .
      He was great in all the aspect . rather than arguing in this blog share your true experience , and let the people decide their opinion. according to me whatever chanakya said was 110% correct .

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    3. Thanks Akriti for visiting the blog and sharing your views on this topic. I am glad to know that you find Chanakya's views about women 100% correct based on your experience, but in my case I don't find them relevant for today's world and that's why wrote this post.

      Whatever I wrote is based on my true experience and that's what share in my all posts. I found some of his statements about women (in general) biased and wrong that's why I raised my objections. Glad that you can relate with these statements, good luck to you. Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

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    4. Lol. Anonymous said it right that Vinay won't understand what he is saying. OMFG I did not know that vinay kept attracted to males. Suddenly I can understand y his views and writings r like this. rofl.

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  66. Thanks Vinay,

    If this is only your case and this is as per your experience then it is fine .I respect your opinion.

    As far as my experience is concerned , Chanakya was not only 100% correct in that era but his thoughts are still alive and 100% correct in today's world also even I found his statement more correct in today's world after seeing number of cases.

    I can understand few women are not like that but these statements were presented by him on the basis of commonly present behaviour in the women and these statements are not applicable for exceptions . I said this according to me.

    Neither I nor you can say his statement are right/wrong but can only say after including the clause according to my experience.

    I liked your post in which you said only you found and didn't generalize it. thanks

    Hope I am clear enough in putting my points.

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    1. Thanks again for your comment and continuing the discussion, basically we all talk based on our experience (including Chanakya), we all look at world through our own vision and whenever we find something which confirms that vision or understanding we relate with it or we ignore or oppose if it doesn't match with our ideas.

      I have seem most women excelling in whatever field they got opportunity, where they don't get proper training and opportunities (most developing countries and places which are still heavily male dominant) they are forced to perform particular job and confined to particular role. This makes them difficult to realize and explore their true potential but this happens not because they are women but because of social and economical conditions of that society. If men are forced through go through similar ordeal for centuries I am sure they will be in same situation.

      We can only say based on our perspective what is right or wrong, when I say anything right it's because I think it's right, someone can find it totally wrong or ridiculous and when we understand that then there is no argument only discussion, which allows us to understand each other better.

      Thanks again for your comments and feel free to express your opinion on other posts also. All the very best.

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  67. ok, But in today's world ,In my opinion all most all women and men are getting equal opportunity means it is not gender specific .
    As far as dominance is concerned then ----------->
    If you see some rules are very badly released from Indian government like act 498 here women are dominating men via misusing this dowry law. I know this is totally different from your topic but just want to make every one aware that dominance is from both the side ,it is not at all gender specific . So according to me , If one wants to show his/her capability no wall can block his/her way .

    my experience says if anybody has more trouble in his/her life then he/she can be more tough and can prove him/herself in better way, even I would say all difficulties are nothing but the steps to get the goal.

    So from my point of view the society is equally dominant by male and female but the areas are different-different for both male and female.

    Whatever chanakaya said is according to his experience and once I get such statements questionable then only I will think but as of now I got most cases according to Chanakya and found him correct in all aspect including his views about common behaviour for women. but this is just my thinking.

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    1. Even though the points you are raising are not directly related with post they are very much relevant.

      [ok, But in today's world ,In my opinion all most all women and men are getting equal opportunity means it is not gender specific]

      I wish this statement was true, there there is no need for such blog or feminist movements BUT just look around and check the stats how many women are in work force? If women are getting equal opportunities, then why Indian government is considering to introduce reservation for them?

      If you apply same logic to castes do you think some people are intelligent just because they are born in particular caste? Because if we look around (say 20 years ago when there was very controlled reservation) we see all top posts occupied by people from these so called upper caste, so does that mean they are more intelligent by birth than people from lower caste? Or is it socioeconomic condition which puts certain people at more advantageous position than others? Have you thought about this?

      Please check the history of feminist movements? Check when they started, I am sure they are not even 100 year old, so you expect all women to compete with man (which they are any way doing) and catch up with them is just few decades? Do you think centuries of oppression, abuse and biased treatment (same is true for some castes and races) won't have any effect on their thinking and behavior? The issue is not as simple as it looks, you are just looking at symptoms but not at the actual problems, it's much more complicated. I advise you to spend some time and study about our own history (not Indian history but human history), how different societies and cultures evolved and how role of men and women was stereotyped and so many other things. This might help you understanding why I wrote this post.

      By dominance I didn't mean just numbers but I mean people who are at position where they take major decisions and can influence policies. This area is still heavily male dominated for centuries. I have no problem with you finding Chanakya correct in writing these statements, I respect your views, I just tried you to explain my views, I hope now we both are clear why we think Chanakya is right or wrong about his views on women.

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    2. As far as I am thinking this time I liked your post but I just want give right direction to make your thoughts more sensible .

      I already told that I am not saying male dominance is not there but equally female dominance is also there.

      You are Correct--> reservation should be, on the basis of economic condition and other aspect rather than gender specific.

      If we see the history then n number of example one can put to prove his/her thoughts but in reality both female and male are equally responsible for making the society.

      In some aspects women are far better than men but vice-versa in also true.

      What about the respect we give to females like.. In each and every religion we give the special consideration to mother which father never yet got. Don't you think this type of good thing also present in our society so my only thinking is Chanakya is correct as he found the real and practical experience and his thoughts are still alive for those majority of women who are still didn't learn and behaving as same as in that era and making misuse of reservation and power which has given by Government.

      Hope this time I was better in explaining.

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    3. Akriti I request you to show one area where females have dominance, if you are talking about the areas like child care, home care and others where they are forced to work or supposed to work, then that's not called as dominance. This is like saying those castes which were forced to do sewage cleaning work are dominant in that and they are only good to do that type of work...even though this might sound technically or statistically relevant statement, it doesn't reflect reality...if some gender or caste or community is forced to do only some type of work or confined to perform only a particular role in family obviously it will look that they dominate that area but not because they want to but they are forced to..I hope you understand the difference.

      Again issue of reservation is not as simple as it looks, do you know how difficult it is in country like India to check how much a person's and family's income is? Do you know that it can change every month for most of people who don't have regular job? So, do you have any suggestions on how to have a accurate and efficient system which can monitor this on continuous basis in country like India? It's easy to criticize government or present system, but do you have any alternative solutions to present? I talked with few policy makers and they all know about these problems and when they decided caste as a basis to provide reservation they took into consideration all these factors. I agree that system is far from perfect but this is best they can come up with, if anyone has better alternative I am sure they will give consideration to it, but unfortunately no party is coming up with any alternative.

      Yes, Both males are females are equally responsible to build healthy and stable society and they are doing it wherever they have equal rights and freedom.

      Yes, we surely do lot of respect to females, but do you think respect can be a substitute for freedom? For me my freedom is more important than respect. Mother deserves special respect and consideration (for all the pain and efforts they take to give birth to child) but we don't need religion for that little bit common sense is enough to understand this.

      Misuse of power is very common phenomena it's not specific to men or women, this issue is separate from gender discrimination so lets not mix them together.

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  68. Vinay please go and read my post once again where I criticized the government? I just said there are women who misuse the power which is given my government.

    Go and read the article about dominance as I was expecting something good from you you but disappointed after seeing your reply ,I will say at least Chanakya did many extra ordinary things and faced lots of challenges without any facility and I wonder the person like you still exist in our society who don't even know what should be their's message.

    One of my friend was in survey of Haryana and he found most of the female child abortion cases and mostly women were involved in that but still i am saying men are also involved. I think rather question about chanakya you should write about this kind of activity .

    I already told you that I am neither here to teach anyone nor to convince you/anyone.

    Just you asked so I am saying go and see the dowry cases 90% females , who are involved in that.

    Don't think you are only the person who is correct .
    I read your blog from top to bottom but unfortunately I found most of the time you were just fighting without any cool explanation.

    Like other ,I also think I should not waste my time here.

    Bye

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    1. So let me first clarify that when I say it's easy to criticize government, I mean it's easy to question their policies, point their mistakes (according to us), we all do it. I read your comments carefully and as far as I understand you do have some objections over their reservation policy, correct me if I am wrong. If I question any policy of government it is considered as criticism (one can decide whether it's constructive or destructive criticism after careful analysis). Criticism is not always bad (if its constructive). I already said misuse of power is common phenomenon men, women all do it, so what you want to say by saying that some women misuse the power, there is nothing new in it.

      Who said Chanakya didn't do any extraordinary things, he was a genius and visionary. His knowledge in the area of economics and governance was amazing and many things which he said in these areas are still useful and relevant. I guess everyone who is hurt because of this blog has misunderstood it as a criticism about Chanakya as a person. I clarified it many times in my replies that it's not, but I think people fail to understand. In general Indians are not tolerant or trained to listen anything against their idols, so I am not surprised by this behavior.

      [[I wonder the person like you still exist in our society who don't even know what should be their's message.]]

      I didn't understand what you want to say in this line, it will be great if you can elaborate, I am unable to make out anything out of this.

      Whatever statistics you are presenting about female foeticide and dowry cases is very well known. I already know about those numbers, I studies these issues and if you go through posts on my blog I also wrote about these issues. These numbers tell us the symptoms of disease not the cause, so you are telling me the symptoms which I already know, it's very easy to say because they are clearly visible to everyone, but I was more interested in what is your diagnosis of cause of this disease, which requires more detailed study, analysis and tests. I was trying to explain it but I know it's neither easy to explain nor easy to understand.

      None of us is here to teach or convince anyone here, if anyone is trying that then it's their mistake. In any discussion I try to share information from my side and also try to get new information from other person to understand why he/she thinks in particular way. I totally understood why you think Chanakya was right in his views about women, I was just explaining my side, I don't have to convince you about anything that's not my job or intention here.

      Again you are telling me symptom (involvement of women in dowry cases) which I already know, do you know the reason behind this? Do you know why a female is scared to bring another female in this world? You know why they kill their own child just because of its gender? Do you think they do it out of pleasure? If you don't know answers to these questions then please go and try to search for it, one blog post or comment is not enough to explain these issues.

      I never ever said that I am the only person who is correct, it's your own assumption and conclusion. You are correct in your own way and I am in my own, there is no question of right or wrong here for me. May be you like to see world in black and white (right or wrong) for me it's not like that.

      I just offer explanations which I have, whether it's cool or not it's up to you to decide.

      You are right if you don't enjoy the discussion then no point in wasting time, I enjoyed the discussion and thanks for initiating it. All the very best to you.

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